Comments on: Talking Past Each Other

By: Pete Spiliakos

Pete Spiliakos — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 01:29:39 +0000

Brian, it wasn’t “completely out-of-bounds” for Howard Dean to use the “take our country back rhetoric, back then, and it isn’t out of bounds now. It was just self-defeating. It (in the context of 2004) made it sound like he thought the government was the stolen property of affluent liberals. That wasn’t what he and his supporters meant by it of course. The context is different today, but Republicans using the same rhetoric come across some of the same problems when it comes to using this rhetoric with people who might otherwise be persuadable. It is more effective as a means of psychic revenge than persuasion. Most people don’t feel like Obama has stolen their country.

Susan,

“Do you think there are a significant number of conservatives who are attracted to the “take this country back” line for reason related to racism? I think most people know that isn’t all conservatives, but are you saying that it’s all just an illusion.

That it’s only a tiny number with racist views rather than something like 30-60%?”

Let me put it this way: Do I think that conservatives would be using the take this country back rhetoric if we had President Chris Dodd with the same policies? Yes, I do. Do I think that these conservatives would be trying to “take this country back” from President Tim Scott? No, I don’t. I think this gives a sense of where I think the vast majority of conservatives are.

Now what about racialized rhetoric and images used by a minority of the opposition? Do I think that a President Scott would face a comparable set of racialized attacks. Yes, and maybe (probably?) more than Obama. Is that because I think that 30%-to-60% of liberals are racist? Nope. It is because I think jerks are present on all sides and the purpose of such attacks in the present day is more to personally wound than to make a claim of racial supremacy. Some (though not most) liberals might also feel a kind of cultural license to use bigoted messaging because they feel the normal rules of tolerance don’t apply to conservative Republican women and nonwhites. Look at Michelle Bachmann on the Jimmy Fallon show. Fallon apologized (though I’m not aware that the band apologize to Bachmann), but it is tough to imagine a liberal Democratic member of the House of Reps. being treated in the same way on network television or that the consequences would have stopped with just an apology. A President Tim Scott would face orders of magnitude greater hostility.

By: Brian

Brian — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:50:57 +0000

Pete: It waaay predates Howard Dean. Clinton used it in 1992. It’s always used by the party out of power, as I said. Acting like it’s all of a sudden completely out-of-bounds is like going along with the hysteria about “targeted seats” after the Giffords shooting. We can at least pretend to be serious, even if no one else is.

By: Talking Past Each Other | CATHOLIC FEAST

Talking Past Each Other | CATHOLIC FEAST — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 06:39:55 +0000

[...] Carl and Peter are right to focus on the combination of statism, lawlessness and raw injustice that characterized Jim Crow. The consciousness of Jim Crow influences how people hear contemporary debate. Lots of well meaning Tea Party folks talk about taking the country back, worry about losing freedom, and want Source: Postmodern Conservative [...]

By: ken masugi

ken masugi — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 03:37:18 +0000

Justice Thomas is our best contemporary resource for figuring out how to speak to one another on this issue. He saw the connection immediately between his grandfather and conservatism properly understood.

By: Carl Eric Scott

Carl Eric Scott — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 03:01:49 +0000

Didn’t know that about Ken Masugi and Clarence Thomas…very cool.

By: Robert Cheeks

Robert Cheeks — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 02:45:22 +0000

Pete, STOP, put down the glass of koolaide. You’ve drunk way too much.
And, no matter how much you kowtow to the PC Gods you will never, ever be accepted among their tribe.

By: Susan

Susan — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 02:37:31 +0000

Do you think there are a significant number of conservatives who are attracted to the “take this country back” line for reason related to racism? I think most people know that isn’t all conservatives, but are you saying that it’s all just an illusion.

That it’s only a tiny number with racist views rather than something like 30-60%?

By: Steven Hayward

Steven Hayward — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 02:35:23 +0000

Pete: Great post. I agree with every word of it, and the punctuation, too.

By: Pete Spiliakos

Pete Spiliakos — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 02:25:34 +0000

Brian, it was self-defeating when Howard Dean used it. No reason to follow his example. Heeeyaaaa!

By: Brian

Brian — Wed, 06 Feb 2013 02:01:12 +0000

The use of “Take our country back!” wasn’t invented by the Tea Party. It’s in constant use by the party out of power. I agree that it’s problematic, and I don’t like the sentiment for my own reasons, but using it as a cudgel against folks supposedly on the same side, as Mr. Medved does, is pretty vile.