Canada is a single payer system that many on the Left look to as a splendid example for the USA. I sure used to, but then I began to learn of the significant problems in the system that hinders prompt and efficacious care in many circumstances. And here’s an example: The Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, Danny Williams, flew to the USA to obtain heart surgery because he couldn’t get what he needed done at home. From the story:
The decision by Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams to travel to the United States to have an undisclosed heart operation has sparked some controversy, but the head of the local health authority said it’s not uncommon to send patients out of province for cardiac care. The CEO of Eastern Health, Vickie Kaminski, said Tuesday afternoon that Williams had all of his diagnostic work done in Newfoundland and was then referred out of the province for treatment, according to NTV’s Fred Hutton. “Vickie Kaminski said it’s not uncommon for people to leave Newfoundland and Labrador to get cardiac surgery done,” Hutton told CTV News Channel. “About twice a month they refer people out of province to other specialists, either across Canada or in the United States, and of course people have the choice as to where they want to go to get the surgery done.” Earlier Tuesday, deputy premier Kathy Dunderdale confirmed Williams is in the United States for heart surgery and could be off the job for up to 12 weeks. Dunderdale told reporters that Williams travelled to the U.S. for the surgery because it wasn’t being offered to him in his home province.
Why go to the USA instead of another Canadian province? His representative won’t say:
Deputy premier Kathy Dunderdale confirmed the treatment at a news conference Tuesday, but would not reveal the location of the operation or how it would be paid for. “He has gone to a renowned expert in the procedure that he needs to have done,” said Dunderdale, who will become acting premier while Williams is away for three to 12 weeks. “In consultation with his own doctors, he’s decided to go that route.” Williams’ decision to leave Canada for the surgery has raised eyebrows over his apparent shunning of Canada’s health-care system. “It was never an option offered to him to have this procedure done in this province,” said Dunderdale, refusing to answer whether the procedure could be done elsewhere in Canada.
Perhaps it is because in Canada, there are lines for such surgeries. It would have been very awkward for a politician to “jump the queue.”
HT: Alex Schadenberg
February 2nd, 2010 | 5:05 pm
That Canadians have to wait too long for surgery doesn’t mean that the Americans would if we converted to a universal healthcare system. A Canadian-like system would leave us with over $1 trillion a year to plug any holes. Canada is working now to fix their problem with wait times but to my knowledge is not contemplating adoption of a US-style system.
In fact, with the alleged problems with health care systems around the world, e.g., Canada, Britain, France, Japan, Germany and on and on, can you point to even one considering a switch to US-style healthcare?
Per person Americans pay twice as much as Canadians for health care, and at least 40 million Americans have limited access.
February 2nd, 2010 | 5:36 pm
Just like the gold-plated health care your “representatives” are keeping to themselves, our political class gets special treatment too.
I fear the day I get really sick here.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Yes, our representatives are becoming an oligarchy. But in a cardiac emergency, our poorest citizens have access to immediate CCU treatment.
February 2nd, 2010 | 5:48 pm
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February 2nd, 2010 | 5:50 pm
Maybe the Canadians have an implicit reliance on their proximity to the U.S. as a safety valve for getting certain types of procedures done, but maybe we have an implicit reliance on them as a release valve source of cheap prescription medications. We may have an unspoken symbiotic relationship which relies on each other’s strengths and weaknesses. A screwed up but sort of functioning relationship not unlike many others in our lives. ;)
February 2nd, 2010 | 6:08 pm
Quoting further from the first article:
“Dr. Robert Roberts, University of Ottawa Heart Institute president, told CTV News Channel’s Power Play that there are no wait times for cardiac surgery in Canada.
“Canada . . . gives superb (cardiac) care,” he said. “Our statistics for complications in surgery are comprisable to the very best in the U.S.”
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:15 pm
Gee, Mijnheer, I did a search for Ontario, one of the places he might have gone had he not thought himself better off in the USA (and more power to him). The wait for bypass is 56 days. http://www.waittimes.net/waittimes/en/wt_data_map.aspx?LHIN=2&Mod=0 Another problem could be the premier’s inability to pay his doctor of choice in Canada, since doctors can’t take private pay.
February 2nd, 2010 | 6:41 pm
As a Canadian and from what I’ve read in the pass about Premier Danny Williams, I would suspect that other provinces might not be too surprised with what he’s done.
The fact that he flew to the USA to obtain heart surgery because he couldn’t get what he needed done at home might confirm what he thinks about “The Canadian Equalization System” but at least they can’t say that he does not have a heart. :)
For what “IT” is worth I’ll continue to pray for U>S as we Canadians “undergo” our own spiritual heart transplant if you know what I mean?
Peace
February 3rd, 2010 | 12:26 am
The announcement about of Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams’ plans has triggered a debate since Canada prides itself on its universal health care system.
February 3rd, 2010 | 12:37 am
[...] at this story from National Post: (H/T Secondhand Smoke via Andrew, ECM) Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams will undergo heart surgery later this week in [...]
February 3rd, 2010 | 12:43 am
[...] the rest here: Single Payer Healthcare: Newfoundland Premier Flies to America For … Categories: Health, Object Tags: congressional, debate, dunderdale, electoral, Health, [...]
February 3rd, 2010 | 7:48 am
The comments that a Canadian medical system would save Americans money is absurd. The only reason healthcare represents less of the GDP in Canada than the US is because we have a system that provides a limited amount of healthcare for everyone.
Will Americans be willing to hobble in pain in line for at least 6 months for hip replacement surgery. Canadians would rather not wait but have no choice.
Danny Williams knew that if he jumped the cue and received surgery immediately somewhere in Canada that it would mean political suicide, but to wait in line and also be expected to be the Premier of a province could be personal suicide. Since he has money, he did what every Canadian with money does, he went south for major medical care
February 3rd, 2010 | 11:01 am
Danny Williams is a wealthy man – net worth of about a quarter billion dollars I believe. Given his wealth and the urgency that he take care of business as premier of the province, it’s perfectly understandable he opted tpo pay for a no-wait premium treatment. Who wouldn’t?
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:07 am
Which is exactly how the Canadian system isn’t so egalitarian.
February 3rd, 2010 | 11:08 am
Yes, Wesley – your poorest citizens have access to CCU treatment. Which clinics? Cleveland? Mayo? Baylor? Not likely…
Danny Williams’ home-province cardio care would rank about the same as rural Alaska – not anyone’s first choice.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:08 am
Ross: ANY hospital with a CCU. It’s the law re emergency care. And note he didn’t go to Montreal, he want to Florida.
February 3rd, 2010 | 11:12 am
Americans may not hobble in pain for 6 months – so long as:
1) They’re actually covered (40 million aren’t)
2) It wasn’t pre-existing or
3) they can pay cash.
Canadians never pay, and – yes, urgent cases get urgent treatment. Period.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a_zs1Y1FspIM
February 3rd, 2010 | 11:14 am
Wesley – Danny wasn’t collapsed, lying on an ambulance gurney…
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:51 am
Yes. The problem we need to solve is coverage for lower middle class and people with pre-existing conditions. Of course, even though Canada has universal coverage, it has millions of citizens who can’t get their own primary care doctor.
February 3rd, 2010 | 1:26 pm
Baloney Wesley – that’s a flat-out lie.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:55 pm
No it’s not. Several years ago there was a front page headline in, I think the Globe and Mail, that said 900,000 Ontario residents couldn’t find primary care physicians. You have the right to health care, but terrible access problems, including doctors who are overworked and underpaid.
Here’s one story on the shortage: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2006/06/22/to-doctor20060622.html. Here’s another: http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0013191 Meanwhile, last August, the head of the Canadian Medical Society warned that the Canadian health care system is “imploding.” http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/secondhandsmoke/2009/08/18/obamacare-uk-and-canada-not-helping-the-cause/
You know RossM, I might be mistaken–I don’t think I am here–but I don’t lie about these things. Name calling isn’t the same thing as rebuttal.
February 3rd, 2010 | 2:46 pm
Even if it is correct – 900,000 isn’t millions…and according to the Bloomberg article, Canada is still substantially ahead of USA healthcare practically across the board. How about today’s Globe & Mail – where giving birth in California is now more perilous for women than in some 3rd World countries – there’s a trend for yu.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:39 pm
RossM: You accused me of lying when I said that millions of Canadians don’t have their own personal doctor. The 900,000 figure was from one province, not the entire country, and that was years ago. Moreover, another commenter said that 6 out of 7 Canadians have their own doctors. Canada has about 30-35 million people, if one out of seven does not have their own doctor, that means roughly 12%, meaning roughly 3-4 million. So, I was factually accurate. Apology accepted.
February 3rd, 2010 | 2:52 pm
While “only” six out of seven Canadians have their own family doctor, nearly all Canadians have access to primary-care physicians; in many urban areas medical clinics seem about as ubiquitous as Starbucks outlets — just walk in; no appointment required.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/article664406.ece
Emergency specialist treatment is normally available immediately. If it’s not considered an emergency, you have to wait your turn, rich or poor. According to official statistics for British Columbia, “B.C. did 475,000 surgeries in 2007/08. Around half of those surgeries were emergency surgeries and were never placed on any waiting list.” And the B.C. Ministry of Health Services reports that “Half of all heart or cardiac surgery in B.C. is done on an emergency basis and without delay.”
http://www.gov.bc.ca/fortherecord/patients/pa_healthcare.html?src=/healthcare/pa_healthcare.html
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/waitlist/cardiac.html
Most Americans don’t want this sort of system, and it’s unlikely it will ever be imposed on them. Canadians, on the other hand, overwhelmingly approve of universal, single-payer health care and are concerned with how to fix its shortcomings.
February 3rd, 2010 | 2:56 pm
You may not be lying – but even 900,000 is not millions. And Canada is still head & shoulders above US healthcare in most ways, acording to the Bloomberg article I cited – your comment on that?
Here’s a current item of interest, from today’s Globe & Mail – it is now more perilous – to mother and child – for a woman to give birth in California that in some 3rd world countries. What’s that a symptom of?
February 3rd, 2010 | 10:58 pm
I am enjoying Ross’ spirited defense of the Canadian Health care system. Wesley certainly applies a huge magnifying glass to any flaws he can find in the Canadian system. But from my perspective, having experience both systems, I prefer the Canadian one because doctors get to see people before they get really sick. The American system would not work well in Canada because Canadians would not be able to afford it. Mr. Moneybags Premier of Newfoundland can purchase himself elite service wherever he goes, and does. So, as an example comparable to the average Joe, he is pretty irrelevant.
However, it is too bad that the USA is not trying to implement a truly public plan. This proposal to pour public money into the pockets of private insurance companies is free enterprise gone deviant. How come this is the only kind of bird that can fly south of 49?
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 12:06 am
The Canadian system wouldn’t work well in the USA, either. My hope is that we can take some of what Canada has, the clinics for example, and apply it here. But I think the Canadians would be better off allowing private care. I think systems need to be mixed for the best result.
February 4th, 2010 | 9:45 am
With regards to your last statement, I would respectfully disagree. A two tiered system would cannibalize the public system. For example, a facility that does public work in the morning and private work in the afternoon only exacerbates the waiting periods. Our system is presently under huge pressure from American “for profit” health care companies who see Canada as a potential profitable market obstructed by a trade barrier they would like to see removed—and they have a tremendous amount of money to pour into the pockets of lobbyists. So in a way, the sooner your system goes public, the better protected ours will be.
This is not to say that our system will not be facing its own challenges. We have an aging demographic who have not done their share in population replacement. And as that population ages, the demands on the health care system will increase, with fewer young people supporting the expense. Given that Canadian health care has been freely paying for abortions, the American fight to keep abortions out of your public health program is what will make it more sustainable in the long run. So good luck with that.
The Canadian health care system is not perfect. If you want an excellent example, that of France is worth looking at.
February 4th, 2010 | 2:23 pm
“And note he didn’t go to Montreal, he want to Florida.” Well, Wesley, the weather IS somewhat nicer down there this time of year, and he obviously can afford the airfare. So what’s your point? That he should have gone to the Mayo and recuperated in 5-below?
February 5th, 2010 | 3:49 pm
Some Canadians that have to travel to the United States for medical reasons do so because their doctor’s here told them to and that is all covered under your health card…owner system here is way better them american health care. We don’t turn people away because they have a sickness that is going to cost millions. Plus we don’t dump people onto the streets if they cannot pay. Plus insurence company who know nothing about health care don’t predict who and where you get your health care. People in american can pay for years into insurance companys and when you get sick be told sorry we cannot help you…nice country and great people ha!
February 5th, 2010 | 5:35 pm
For some reason, my family took a vacation to Newfoundland when I was a teenager. I remember the food was — well, unspeakable, as is a national health care system that makes one stand in line and if you’re old, well, tough luck.
February 6th, 2010 | 5:33 pm
As a Canadian who lived and worked in the US for seven years, I can tell you that the Canadian health care system is miles ahead of the US insurance-run and rationed health care system for the avreage person.Any Canadian has far better care than an equivalent, (similar in income etc.) American has. Some seem to look demeaningly at 6 out of 7 (85%) of Canadians having a personal physician, yet totally overlook the fact that only 1 in 6 (16%) of Americans have a personal physician. Look at your own American system, with 16% (versus 85% in Canada) of people having a personal physician. As far as Danny Williams is concerned, he is ONE out of 33,000,000 Canadians who went to the US for treatment, while 95% of the other 32,999,000 would not touch US insurance-run death care with a ten foot pole and would totally reject having an American style insurance-run system in Canada. There are private surgical clinics in Canada, except NO Canadian will use them, so they have to attract 1.5 million Americans to come to Canada for those private clinics to avoid going out of business. That’s right, a handful of Canadians get treatment in the US, and 1.5 MILLION Americans get treatment in Canada. One American declares declares bankruptcy because of medical bills every 12 seconds, while Canadians NEVER go bankrupt from medical bills. 45,000 Americans die annually from not having access to health care, most of whom would be alive if they were Canadians in Canada. Maybe that puts things in a bit of perspective.
February 8th, 2010 | 3:26 pm
I don’t have a doctor because I have not needed one. However on Saturday I went to a walk in clinic in Winnipeg, waited one hour, saw the staff doctor, was given my prescription and all it cost was $7.00 for the medication. Try that down south.
February 9th, 2010 | 1:21 pm
John, Well put! The healthcare INDUSTRY in this
country is a disaster. My wife and I have good
jobs and both have insurance, but still find it
difficult to pay for the skyrocketing cost of perscriptions, co-pays, deductables, premiums
and any procedure that the insurance company
deems unnecessary. The thousands of wonderful doctors and nurses that we have in this country are worth their weight in gold, but they aren’t the ones making millions and billions of dollars. The American system is a giant train
wreck waiting to happen. Thanks to all for the
real dirt on Danny Williams. The right wing propaganda machine is holding him up as their
poster boy and reason for not not adopting a Canadian style health system. Go figure.
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