I haven’t been blogging the daily machinations of those trying to pass Obamacare–even after losing the political debate over it. But Yuval Levin made a pithy comment over at The Corner about this huge mess that is worth noting. From his post:
Democratic leaders should be asking themselves just how they have gotten to the point that their strategy is to amend a law that doesn’t exist yet by passing a bill without voting on it. Surely it’s time to start over.
Starting over would be the rational course if you wanted to enact reform that improved things. But that desire has been subsumed by naked politics and hubris. Hence, “whatever it takes” to get the job done–no matter how undemocratic or self destructive.
March 11th, 2010 | 7:31 pm
The total cost of healthcare for other industrialized nations (Finland, Australia, Italy, Germany, Israel, Japan, Canada, France, Switzerland, Luxembourg, S. Korea, Norway, Austria, Spain, Sweden, New Zealand… you get the idea) is about 1/2 of what US citizens pay. And most Europeans have better healthcare than we do. Better healthcare for half as much. Why wouldn’t we consider that?
Are they less free? No. Are the economies there worse than here? No.
March 11th, 2010 | 7:46 pm
Today’s news is that the Senate parliamentarian has ruled that the House must pass the bill as submitted by the Senate, and the President must sign it. Only then can reconciliation changes be considered.
My bet is that the Vice-President will override the decision of the parliamentarian. He has that authority. But does he have the chutzpah? “Whatever it takes…”
March 11th, 2010 | 10:26 pm
Jeffrey-If that’s true, than why do all the people with money from other countries, including Europe, come to the US for significant treatments? And, healthcare is not necessarily better in Europe. Women have been denied drugs to stop miscarriages/premature labor and old people denied treatments simply on the basis of the categories they fall into. Do you want that here? I don’t.
March 12th, 2010 | 8:55 am
safepress,
“All” the people with money do not come to the US for treatment. Some do. Some people with money fly to Paris for supper, too.
In addition, it’s estimated that 1.5 million Americans traveled to other countries for medical treatments in 2008.
You would be hard pressed to find any reliable measure of health care that shows the US is better than countries like France, Norway or Switzerland. And every citizen in those nations has access to adequate and affordable healthcare. At least 30 million Americans rely on expensive emergency room or EMS care. Or no care. At least 17,500 Americans die every year from lack of adequate and affordable healthcare (Inst of Med, 2002).
Most Americans don’t have better healthcare just much more expensive healthcare.
Where do you think the unnecessary $1 trillion extra we spend EVERY year on healthcare goes?
Our current system of for-profit healthcare is harming American citizens, American businesses and American global competitiveness. And it’s getting worse each year we wait. We have examples from other nations on how to proceed. At least 30 industrialized nations do a better job of delivering healthcare to their citizens and every one of those nations do it for 1/2 of what we spend. Why would we as Americans tolerate our current system?
We are the only wealthy nation without universal healthcare. Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Cyprus, Denmark, England, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Monaco, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, N. Korea, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, UK… do it as well, or better.
March 12th, 2010 | 10:55 am
A third of all Canadian doctors have sent someone to the US for treatment. Including a recent incident where a prominent government official came to the US.
March 12th, 2010 | 11:39 am
safepres: “Jeffrey-If that’s true, than why do all the people with money from other countries, including Europe, come to the US for significant treatments?”
That’s a pretty blanket statement, Jeffrey, can you back that up somehow?
And in any case, aren’t the wealthy free to chase whatever health care they want anyway? This health care reform isn’t really about them, is it? It’s about the working poor and underinsured.
“And, healthcare is not necessarily better in Europe.”
Nope, not necessarily better here either. but ACCESS to health care IS better there. And that’s what it’s about.
March 12th, 2010 | 2:09 pm
Mary,
I don’t believe your unsubstantiated statement that 1/3 of Canadian physicians have sent patients to the US for treatment.
padraig,
What statement did I make that you disagree with? I think your comments are better directed at safepres.
March 12th, 2010 | 2:59 pm
correct Jeff, got mixed up because safepres directed the statement at you. Sorry.
BTW, safepres, what about the American medical tourists that I’ve seen go to Switzerland, Mexico, even CUBA for heaven’s sake? And what about all the cheap prescription drugs being smuggled from Canada?
March 12th, 2010 | 6:33 pm
Umm, just wondering….if Europeans have healthcare at half our price, why isn’t Obamacare costing us half our price?
March 12th, 2010 | 8:41 pm
Rick, because Obamacare can’t at this time eliminate one of the root causes of our expense, which is for-profit intermediaries, primarily large health insurance companies. In addition to their profits you have to factor in marketing costs that serve little purpose but to try to convince us to use insurer A instead of insurer B.
But, that’s the price we pay for not going to single-payer, which probably would reduce our cost, but would likely reduce our health care options to some extent.
There’s just too much baggage in our current system for us to get to European cost levels.
March 12th, 2010 | 10:14 pm
Ahh, thank you Padraig. I told my brother in law back many moons ago, once it became clear that the President was more committed to abortion funding in his plan than he was to a public option, or even a single payer approach, that we were virtually certain to end up with the worst of both worlds. Which we have. I pray that this mess will fail and we can try it again when we have a President more committed to a public option than he is to Federally funded child massacre.
March 12th, 2010 | 10:22 pm
Thank you for clearing that up, padraig. So Obamacare does not, in fact, address the cost differential which was the basis of Jeff’s admonition in the first place. But it certainly *does* place Catholic and other voters opposed to abortion in a position where their consciences are violated by forcing them to fund child murder. I hope this atrocity fails, since what we have here is a President more committed to funding child murder than he is to a public option, thereby giving us the worst of both worlds in this woeful, discredited, rejected, and politicized attempt to jam down our throats what we have made abundantly clear we do not want. Should this mess be enacted through legislative trickery, I certainly expect the American people to utterly demolish the Democrats at the polls in November, and begin dismantling Obamacare immediately.
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