I never cease to be amazed at how absolute the abortion right has become. Women not only have a right to abortion, through the ninth month in many cases, but so do children–and they can obtain an abortion in some states without their parents even knowing they underwent a serious surgical procedure.
Children can’t take an aspirin without parental consent. They can’t legally enter into contracts. They can’t get their ears pierced without a parental signature. They can’t get tattoos. They can’t get a driver’s license or join the military. But Seattle school officials conspired to obtain a 15 year old’s abortion behind her parents’ backs–during school hours!–and it is all legal. From the story:
The mother of a Ballard High School student is fuming after the health center on campus helped facilitate her daughter’s abortion during school hours. The mother, whom KOMO News has chosen to identify only as “Jill,” says the clinic kept the information “confidential.” When she signed a consent form, Jill figured it meant her 15 year old could go to the Ballard Teen Health Center located inside the high school for an earache, a sports physical, even birth control, but not for help terminating a pregnancy. “She took a pregnancy test at school at the teen health center,” she said. “Nowhere in this paperwork does it mention abortion or facilitating abortion.”
Jill says her daughter, a pro-life advocate, was given a pass, put in a taxi and sent off to have an abortion during school hours all without her family knowing. “We had no idea this was being facilitated on campus,” said Jill. “They just told her that if she concealed it from her family, that it would be free of charge and no financial responsibility.”…
T.J. Cosgrove of the King County Health Department, which administers the school-based programs for the health department, says it’s always best if parents are involved in their children’s health care, but don’t always have a say. “At any age in the state of Washington, an individual can consent to a termination of pregnancy,” he said. But Jill says she not only didn’t have a say in her daughter’s abortion, but also didn’t know about it. “Makes me feel like my rights were completely stripped away.”
That’s because parents don’t matter. Abortion matters, and for some reason, seems to matter more than anything else.
And here’s an irony: If the girl had a complication and her parents took her to the hospital, they would have to sign a consent form before doctors could treat her or even, save her life. I don’t care if one is pro life or pro choice, such blatant usurpation of parental responsibilities is just plain wrong.
March 24th, 2010 | 10:34 am
I don’t understand what the article is saying about the daughter being a “pro life advocate.” If an abortion actually occurred, it would seem that the daughter is not a pro life advocate, although I suppose people do change their minds, but I don’t know why the article would mention it in this particular context.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 10:50 am
It seems unclear. It is possible she did this to illustrate what can happen. Or, it could be, she had an abortion.
March 24th, 2010 | 11:03 am
We’ve seen this time and again, the Enlightenment/Leftist mantra: families are by their very nature oppressive and backward; the State will liberate the individual and help shape the New Man.
March 24th, 2010 | 11:06 am
This mother sounds like an absolutely horrible person. Daughter goes against her beliefs so the girl gets to be called a whore in the national spotlight. This is why teens need help like the good people at her school gave her, because some parents are just crappy human beings.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
There is nothing in the story about the mother calling names. And it is irrelevant to the post. The issue is the school providing a serious surgical procedure on somebody’s child without parental knowledge or consent. Have we lost all capacities to focus and think critically?
March 24th, 2010 | 11:33 am
Or it could be that the mother is pro-life and simply _assumed_ that her daughter shared her belief.
And you _know_ what they say about assuming…
It’s funny – sort of … a very long time ago when my kids were small, we had a neighbor who smoked. One of my sons, having been properly indoctrinated by TV ads against smoking told her – often – that she shouldn’t smoke. Nevertheless, we went on a picnic one day, my neighbor put a lit cigarette down on a rock, and guess who was the one and only kid who surreptitiously picked it up and took a puff… Yup. The admonisher.
It takes a long time to get kids to become adults with a firmly established sense of right and wrong. It’s _really_ easy to get them off the straight and narrow. You also have to think about the fact that not only didn’t this mother know her daughter had an abortion, but nothing is said about whether she knew her daughter was having sex. Wonder what she thought about _that_ – or if she did.
March 24th, 2010 | 12:24 pm
We’ve been working on further details of this story–specifically who is providing the “free” taxi service. We were tipped to this a couple of weeks ago. We have tried for years to get parental notification through the state legislature. It’s offered every year, and gets buried in committee, even though polls show citizens overwhelmingly approve of parental notification. Washington state is an abortion lobby’s paradise.
March 24th, 2010 | 12:47 pm
Note for the record – the health bill just passed and signed into law by President Obama provides new authority and authorizes such sums as may be necessary for “school-based health centers.” Sec. 4101 of the bill covers this new authority. Centers that receive grants may not “perform abortions” – but note that Ballard’s certainly did not. The health care bill is silent on abortion referrals and indeed on taxicabs to the abortion clinics. Under this bill, we will get more such incidents as occurred here. And the mother is worthy of all defense – she did not derogate her daughter, but the adults who facilitated this crime against the family. If the mother suffered in silence, she would only be joining the legion of parents so wronged by our nation’s unjust laws in this area whose shame has resulted only in silent sorrow.
March 24th, 2010 | 12:56 pm
Has anyone here ACTUALLY read Ballard’s forms?
Do we have any evidence the school actually did this facilitation, as their forms say they can?
Did the daughter make all this up?
Has Tiger Woods or John Edwards been in Seattle lately?
If the school did perform this abortion hook-up after her hook-up, was it in CLEAR violation of the principles stated Ballard’s forms or in WA state law?
Read these:
http://www.ballardbeavers.org/Services/Student%20Health/bthc.html
http://www.ballardbeavers.org/Services/flyer.pdf
(download the consent form)
I am not defending the school, just asking the questions, this seems odd, and should this event be true as reported here, it would appear parental authority is usurped, regardless of the practicality, albeit within the consent form yet without regard to decency and parental respect
HOWEVER,
Everyone should read the consent form on the link I posted.
Jill has nothing to complain about if she in fact knowingly signed the listed consent form (perhaps her daughter tricked her, though?).
Then Jill goes public, only to reveal that she likely is foolish for not understanding the forms.
This is a trend in America. People blame government/institutions for their own stupidity, ignorance, and/or illiteracy.
Tough darts, Jill.
The people of Seattle ought to address this, though.
March 24th, 2010 | 1:07 pm
The thing you seem to be missing is that the girl is the one who was pregnant – it was her body, not her mom’s – that’s why she got to make the choice. Get it? This is the law in WA – and that is the reason for it. Women are not forced to have children against their will. The born should always take precedence – especially in early stages which it seems this was. And it doesn’t surprise me that someone who thought they were pro-life changed their mind when she found herself in this unfortunate situation – it’s really easy to armchair coach other people’s lives.
March 24th, 2010 | 2:48 pm
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March 24th, 2010 | 3:06 pm
Imabear said, “[T]he girl is the one who was pregnant – it was her body, not her mom’s – that’s why she got to make the choice….Women are not forced to have children against their will.”
This wasn’t a “woman”, but a minor child for whom the parents are legally and financially responsible. That’s when the situation changes. If the girl had been self-supporting and age 21, you are right. That wasn’t the case here. The girl was 15 and, depending on state law, below the age of consent to have sex in the first place.
“Her” body, indeed. If that were truly the case, we wouldn’t have age of consent and statutory rape laws, or for that matter, laws against illicit drug use or drug abuse during pregnancy. Sorry, your argument does not wash that well.
There are options in states with parental notification and consent laws if a minor fears her parents’ wrath over an abortion, typically by getting a judge to permit the procedure. That did not go on here. The school usurped the parents’ authority, plain and simple.
March 24th, 2010 | 3:41 pm
And if the daughter had bled to death because of post-abortion complications, or died of infection, because she couldn’t tell her mother of complications because that would reveal she had an abortion. . . .
Anyway, the school is required to report if they suspect a child is being abused. Courts have held that pregnancy creates a suspicion that the child is being sexually abused. They broke the law.
March 24th, 2010 | 6:05 pm
The Pro-Aborts are downright despicable…
“The girl was then called a taxi, which picked her up at the school and drove her *by herself* to Planned Parenthood. The mother says once at the clinic a Planned Parenthood worker discouraged her daughter from informing her parents. She claims the worker told her that if she kept quiet the procedure would be free, *but if* she told her parents they would have to pay for the abortion.”
http://tinyurl.com/yzctsob
Those at organizations such as Planned Parenthood who say that they espouse “choice” always seem to be eager to hide their activities and manipulations from the light of day.
There was more than one adult involved who “guided” a minor child into making a specific decision – through fear and intimidation.
(Hide it. Kill it. Make it go away.)
March 24th, 2010 | 7:15 pm
Daniel: “Those at organizations such as Planned Parenthood who say that they espouse “choice” always seem to be eager to hide their activities and manipulations from the light of day.”
Daniel, you do understand that since PP deals with patient medical information, they are legally bound to confidentiality by HIPAA? They are legally blocked from telling their side of the story unless the family releases them. Which is how it should be, but don’t mistake that for secrecy. I’m sure they’d love to tell their side.
March 24th, 2010 | 9:04 pm
When the state takes control of the Parents right to be parents in a case such as this it becomes obvious that we are nothing more then slave breeders to the state ourselves. They already have control of the children through education programing . I really don’t see how we got so messed up other then we have so little use for the morals or consequences of making all the bad experiences go away for our children. How unfortunate is it that a child already learned from it’s state teachers that the life of a new child is so unworthy compared to your own inconvenience. The other side of that two edged sword is every facet of life is entitlement to the state by the state.
March 24th, 2010 | 9:12 pm
I have come to think there are a lot of similarities between planned parenthood and the Acorn workers who the youngsters exposed in that Hooker/Pimp sting where they asked the Acorn workers to help them set up a Brothel for under aged illegal prostitutes. The parents in both scenarios were off limits and the kids involved are treated as if they will never have SOULS.
March 24th, 2010 | 10:36 pm
padraig,
I wasn’t talking about patient confidentiality at all.
I was talking about the apparent coercion and intimidation of the minor child.
HIPPA is not meant to be used as a cover for coercion or intimidation, wouldn’t you agree?
I trust PP about as half as far as I can throw them.
http://tinyurl.com/y9thbk4
They are no better than ACORN.
And both are being exposed to… guess what?
The light of day!
March 24th, 2010 | 11:26 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Vince Humphreys and J. Robert Howell, yolanda powell. yolanda powell said: Abortion Now More Important Than Parental Rights » Secondhand …: The mother of a Ballard High School student is … http://bit.ly/blKT0N [...]
March 25th, 2010 | 9:12 am
Rather than bogging down in how much PP is to blame for this situation, I’d like to ask you all to answer a couple of more central questions:
What if the girl had sought an abortion, and parental consent was denied? Whose will should prevail?
And: Where’s the biological father in all this? What are his rights in the abortion/no abortion decision?
March 25th, 2010 | 9:21 am
Padraig,
It’s systemic secrecy. One student, Lila Rose, went around posing as an underage girl to Planned Parenthoods in states where agencies are legally required to report statutory rape. She’s netted something like 10 clinics so far ignoring the law, and she could have dozens more since she releases one every month or so. I’ll admit I have no idea nor desire to check the statutory rape laws in WA at this moment, but make no mistake, Planned Parenthood has demonstrated they will play fast and loose with legality if they see it as fulfilling their mission.
Donnie,
Plenty of interesting similarities. Lila Rose who works on the above Planned Parenthood expose, actually is friends with the ACORN exposer guy James O’Keefe, both involved (as I have been tangentially in college) with the Leadership Institute. Planned Parenthood’s president is married to a higher-up at SEIU, which is practically a roommate with ACORN and all three count George Soros as a benefactor or has his family serving as a board member. Things seem similar for a reason. It’s a very small world, and as Bob Novak pointed out, few things in DC are strictly on the level (of course we’re one society, so how could anything be completely on the level anyway?).
March 25th, 2010 | 10:25 am
Actually, the biological father’s right is, quite likely, to be in jail for statutory rape. But Planned Parenthood destroyed the DNA evidence that might have jailed him.
March 25th, 2010 | 10:26 am
JustChris: “…Planned Parenthood has demonstrated they will play fast and loose with legality if they see it as fulfilling their mission.”
And a large part of that mission is protecting the confidentiality of the patients they see. Of course they’re secretive, they have to be to protect the women that come to them. Not to mention that many have been physically threatened.
Please do not misinterpret my position: I wish there was never another abortion performed in the world. At the same time, I’m not a pregnant teenager, or a single mother on welfare, or the governor of Alaska for that matter. I don’t want to make their insanely difficult choices for them. I would like to see them have the support they need regardless of their choice.
March 25th, 2010 | 11:47 am
Mary: “Actually, the biological father’s right is, quite likely, to be in jail for statutory rape. But Planned Parenthood destroyed the DNA evidence that might have jailed him.”
Mary, if they’re both underage, then the girl is also guilty of statutory rape. And they may not need DNA evidence, he may admit his role.
So, you’re dodging the only question you answered. Should the biological father have the right to block (or demand, for that matter) the abortion?
And again, if the young woman wants an abortion and her parents refuse consent, what should happen then?
March 25th, 2010 | 1:02 pm
Padraig and others,
I agree. Let’s consider the will of others in this mess. Let’s start with the will of the baby.
March 25th, 2010 | 2:46 pm
[...] 25, 2010 at 12:46 pm In the wake of the UFI Daily story regarding the State of Washington and the mother who lamented the fact that her high-school age daughter was given an abortion without her knowledge, I went to [...]
March 25th, 2010 | 4:14 pm
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by CO2HOG: SHS: Abortion Now More Important Than Parental Rights http://bit.ly/dlswln #tcot…
March 25th, 2010 | 5:26 pm
I had made some personal observations::
Donnie Mac Leod
March 24th, 2010 | 9:12 pm
I have come to think there are a lot of similarities between planned parenthood and the Acorn workers who the youngsters exposed in that Hooker/Pimp sting where they asked the Acorn workers to help them set up a Brothel for under aged illegal prostitutes. The parents in both scenarios were off limits and the kids involved are treated as if they will never have SOULS.
To which Just Chris made some interesting comments in light of his own observations.::
JustChris
March 25th, 2010 | 9:21 am
Donnie,
Plenty of interesting similarities. Lila Rose who works on the above Planned Parenthood expose, actually is friends with the ACORN exposer guy James O’Keefe, both involved (as I have been tangentially in college) with the Leadership Institute. Planned Parenthood’s president is married to a higher-up at SEIU, which is practically a roommate with ACORN and all three count George Soros as a benefactor or has his family serving as a board member. Things seem similar for a reason. It’s a very small world, and as Bob Novak pointed out, few things in DC are strictly on the level (of course we’re one society, so how could anything be completely on the level anyway?).
TWO THINGS out of this: (1)My suspicions are very reasonable in light of Chris claims. (2) It is good that young watch dogs are taking over for a press core that has been so unable to report the news with any sense of integrity which interferes with their own agenda.
For me the linkage of ideology was so apparent between how little regard Planned Parenthood has for Children’s Souls whose babies are aborted today or that Acorn had for the Souls of the children they were so willing to destroy in Prostitution planning. Seems the thinking process between both does actually have physical connection in a commonality of people that serve both masters.
March 25th, 2010 | 6:14 pm
Donnie,
I don’t want to give the impression that there is a conspiracy, but yes, there’s the same ideological underpinnings. So few people get involved in politics that the conservatives know the conservatives, the liberals know the liberals and quite often the conservatives know the liberals!
March 25th, 2010 | 8:43 pm
Kami: “I agree. Let’s consider the will of others in this mess. Let’s start with the will of the baby.”
A lovely thought. But ultimately just talk, and thus utterly unhelpful. Girls in this situation need help, not lectures from people with nothing at stake.
March 25th, 2010 | 10:26 pm
I don’t think of it as a conspiracy but as a prism that shows just how cold & calculating such groups as Acorn & Planned Parenthood are towards children who will hit a wall someday with regards to their souls or lack thereof.
March 26th, 2010 | 8:01 am
Probably forced to have the abortion.. to hide.. that a teacher did help to conceive a child. I bet that teacher is way older.and the other issue?.Where is father’s rights? Who is the father?
March 26th, 2010 | 8:49 am
If a “child” is old enough to be pregnant in the first place, then she’s obviously NOT a “child,” but a biological adult. Puberty, you know. In that case, the decision as to whether she should bear a child seems better left to her than to anyone else.
March 26th, 2010 | 8:57 am
Kami: Sure thing. Let’s all ask the fetus for its opinion remembering, as Sir Thomas More observed, that silence assumes assent.
March 26th, 2010 | 9:37 am
That comment is about as off the wall as one can offer to an intelligent conversation HW. Puberty does not Trump adulthood no matter how liberal you want to be in a civilized nation . In fact such believes will only make humanity more Primeval in their societies.
March 26th, 2010 | 10:17 am
How did the girl become pregnant in the first place? We know that in the case of the Brazilian child who conceived twins, we now know she was raped by her uncle. The mother’s outrage seems misplaced. A woman who is pregnant is an adult. There are other cases where we treat children as adults. Criminal laws in several states allow for prosecuting minors as young as 13 as adults. And haven’t there been cases of teens on death row awaiting execution on the attainment of majority? Capital punishment. Any thoughts Wes?
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 10:21 am
In this country, you can’t get the DP if you are a minor, even if tried as an adult. At least that is the best of my knowledge.
But DP issues are irrelevant here. I don’t get into the DP because if it is carried out, it is based on the behavior of the condemned, not their characteristics, disabilities, inconvenience to others, or capacities. There are certainly good arguments against the DP, but I don’t think they touch on the issue with which we grapple here.
March 26th, 2010 | 11:27 am
If people truly believed that children had that much control over their bodies why are the FORCED to stay in school???
March 26th, 2010 | 11:39 am
I think some of these people are missing the point here. This is a qustion of whether the “State” or the “Parent” is responsible for a minor, and whether they have the authority to council a young impressionable girl into mudering an innocent human life. In our Country and our Culture, it is the parent who is repsonsoble for the minor. If that minor goes out and runs over someone, will a lawyer sue the parents or the State? And on it goes. Children belong to God and the parents whom He entrusted them to. The State did not concieve and give birth to and raise the child. It was and rightly is the parents. No one has a right to murder an innocnent human being. NO ONE! Not even a mother carrying a child. It is her body, but it is also the body of another who has equal rights like her. Does it become a horse at some point? NO! it is a human being from conception to birth, and then to death at end of life. The life of any human belongs to God. So when a school counselor trys to convnce a child who is pregnant to commit murder, that person should be charged with conspiricy to commit murder & child abuse, and put behind bars. No matter what some of you might think about the mother, the situation, or who the father was, you miss the point. A murder was committed and aided and abbetted by someone who works for the State employee. A person who usurped the rights of the parent, to convince the child of their own agenda of murder. When are we going to end this insanity and offense to reason and stand up for the Principals upon which our civilization was founded? Even Hamurabi new better than these mepty minded fools. Rome began in that same way until it rejected even the natural virtues and fell. Where are we in that process?
March 26th, 2010 | 12:38 pm
[...] Pretzel and The Absolute Right to Abortion. March 26, 2010 The blog at First Things gets it right. In modern America, abortion matters. Often, it surpasses other rights. After [...]
March 26th, 2010 | 1:12 pm
Donnie MacLeod:
You said: “Puberty does not Trump adulthood no matter how liberal you want to be in a civilized nation.”
Your remark brings to mind the lyrics of a 1960s song: “Don’t know much bi-o-lo-gy….; Don’t know much ’bout hi-sto-ry…”"
“Adulthood,” as you may know, has more than one meaning: one socio-legal, another biological. Socio-legal adulthood is a convention that varies all over the lot, from country to country and from culture to culture. So if you’re talking about that kind of adulthood (i.e., the “children under 12 pay half price” kind, your opinion is neither better nor worse than that of anyone else.
The “age of consent” is nothing more than a legislative or societal consensus as to when someone might have sufficient maturity to engage in sexual intercourse without being exploited. As you probably know, a woman who is drunk, mentally deficient or unconscious is deemed incapable of giving their consent to sexual intercourse no matter how old she is.
On the other hand biological adulthood is based solely upon puberty — in particular, upon menarche in the female — which is to say upon the capability to reproduce. It is not based upon the female’s “emotional maturity” or upon her parents’ opinions, the neighbors’ opinions, her clergyman’s opinion, the Bible, the Koran or, for that matter, Mad Magazine.
Since adulthood is much more certainly a biological state than a societal convention, it would stand to reason that a pregnant woman’s reproductive rights can be enforceable under Roe v. Wade to the exclusion of parental notification, unless she is mentally handicapped to the extent of being incapable of making decisions.
If you consider that “off the wall” I fear YOU have a problem, not I.
March 26th, 2010 | 1:25 pm
Sorry folks, but I mixed up the lyrics. They are correctly:
“Don’t know much about hi-sto-ry…
Don’t know much bi-o-lo-gy….”
Same basic idea, tho’
HW
March 26th, 2010 | 1:39 pm
HistoryWriter and others are trying to play the card, “If she’s old enough to get pregnant, she’s old enough to decide…”
Rubbish. We’ve had some instances in the news recently in which boys of about the same age did not want to go through chemo or other cancer treatments but Child Protective Services stepped in to force the parents to make the child undergo the prescribed medical treatments anyway. One was in Virginia involving a 17–year–old, another in another state involving a 13–year–old. I guarantee both had reached puberty. The point is that both were considered too young to make medical decisions for themselves. (And there was no unborn baby involved, only cancer tumors…)
So it should be for underage girls who are pregnant. However, I wonder about parents who are so clueless that they failed to realize their daughter was sexually active and pregnant.
March 26th, 2010 | 1:52 pm
I should point out that I am not in favor of minors keeping children to raise, either, because of the obvious maturity issues. The automatic presumption should be that a minor child is de facto an unfit parent. The choice should be adoption to a responsible couple. The girl’s parents should not be allowed to keep the baby, since they obviously failed in their job of parenting when she became pregnant. Parenting is about protection from potential harm as well as control.
March 26th, 2010 | 3:38 pm
The parrents have the right to bring up their children. It is obvious the girl didn’t talk with her parents about this. How sad. But too many young people have no respect for their parents (think about the 4th Commandment here). Abortion is the killing of unborn ‘children.’ The mother should sue the school for inappropriate and unconscienable acts of murder (since kiling goes against the 5th Commandment of God).
March 26th, 2010 | 4:14 pm
I disagree on the parent’s being left out of the picture. In fact some parents can raise a child that is all about being a virgin at marriage while a second daughter might be sexually active before they are 13 . Failure is not so easily measured as the child’s own personality will be the deciding factor. Rules should never be without common sense.
March 26th, 2010 | 4:22 pm
Could the school have gotten away with providing a sex change operation for the teen? Just curious…
March 26th, 2010 | 5:22 pm
A Baby, a human being, a child of God
(MURDERED)
March 26th, 2010 | 5:42 pm
K-Man: The two cases you cite (about refusing medication) are quite different from a woman’s deciding whether to remain pregnant. It’s already settled law that a woman has an unrestricted right to decide whether to bear children, regardless of her age or condition of family dependency. The various arguments against it are mostly of the should have/could have/would have variety — in other words, interesting but legally irrelevant. I am, frankly, surprised that the young woman’s family didn’t even know their daughter was sexually active and obviously made no effort to educate her about her sexuality or the availability of contraception, but now feel they are owed some say in her pregnancy decision.
March 26th, 2010 | 5:48 pm
Mark Andreas: Your arguments may be interesting to clergymen, or to religious zealots posing as ethicists, but I should remind you that here in America it matters less than nothing what you God says, thinks or does. We are a secular republic, not a theocracy. If you’d rather live according to the rules of the Almighty you might want to try living in the Vatican; or perhaps in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
March 26th, 2010 | 7:10 pm
Sounds like to me that the same old story is unfolding – A very liberal out of control state is trying to usurp parental authority and hide something that is horendous from a caring loving family. Shame on anyone who judges this Mother who only wanted to help support her daughter. The same daughter that she bore for 9 months, has clothed, fed, helped through sickness, etc. How crazy and low our society is sinking. Jesus save us! and put to shame all of your enemies who hate you and all that you stand for. Let us pray for our poor misguided lost brothers and sisters before it is too late for them.
March 26th, 2010 | 7:13 pm
To the self proclaimed history writer or should I say history distorter – woe to those who are wise in their own eyes! I will pray for you!
March 26th, 2010 | 10:42 pm
Mark Andreas:
You are right on. Thanks for bringing things to light. I dont think the “writer” who criticized who speaks atheism even understood one bit of your truth because hes too blind to see anything but his own proud arrogance.
March 26th, 2010 | 10:58 pm
Wes when a teen/pre-teen is tried as an adult DP or not doesn’t make a difference, because the defendant in such cases is put away for at least 15 years. And with the most draconian and ineffective drug laws in the world we have 1000s of young men and women rotting away in prison while the prison industry makes millions. Your outrage is misplaced. I thought you were Naderite?
March 27th, 2010 | 12:06 am
The Government owns our children. It does not recognize the natural rights parents have. It merely permits parents to have certain rights – for now.
March 27th, 2010 | 9:51 am
[Disrespectful attacks on religious belief deleted.] Just keep your “laws” off other people’s bodies.
March 27th, 2010 | 11:15 am
It seems to me that now days there are two things that trump all: the right to abortion, and homosexuality. Everything else pales in importance. It’s utterly laughable to the media that some folks are still stuck in the dark middle-ages, with their fear that God still administers justice. What I find interesting, though, is that one side seems to have cornered the mainstream media.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 11:19 am
TD and others: I let the remark on homosexuality in, because I think it is a fair point in the context of the comment, in a post that deals with priorities. That said, I DO NOT WANT this thread to get into that issue. Thank you all very much.
March 27th, 2010 | 3:49 pm
The following comment will seem random, unless you read all of the way through.
Today I took my son and his friend to see the latest 3D extravaganza, “How to Train your Dragon.” It had the typical kid’s movie plot; young child is smarter than adults and must teach them the truth. There is a subplot of love interest for the heroic teen, and the ‘teens’ of the movie are so dwarfed by the adults as to look more like 8 year old children.
In a world that presents this as the most common story to young children, why not let them choose to have sex too early, and abort the next generation? Because it is wrong.
Children don’t teach parents except in exceptional circumstances. Not all children are exceptional. Not all parents are dolts.
God help this young woman and her family. She will pay in grief for what she has been ‘helped to do.’ Maybe not now, but sometime in the future. Imagine sitting in a bad public school social studies class and thinking, “I killed my baby so that I could continue to do this?”
March 27th, 2010 | 4:00 pm
A good priest commented that the momentum of our culture is now neo-pagan. The veneer is only left over from the Judeo-Christian world. The theme of this blog and the comments prove the point. Only in a world where pagan morals influenced law would child murder (abortion) be allowed. Keeping parents from “imposing” their values on their child is the glaring symptom of this dichotomy in reality. One needs to realize we have moved so far away from the morals that made our country possible; we are watching that world die under the neo-pagan influences that have the upper hand. I feel sorry for the mother who had to find this out in such a horrible manner.
March 27th, 2010 | 9:33 pm
The girl has been raped from the gift of life, from her child, the man who engaged in the act to co create the child,was raped from his gift as well. The world was raped from this gift that each person is to the world. The Gilrs Mother was stripped from the gift of her grandchild. To take the life of the innocent, and support the taking of that life is total lack of love and respect that each person deserves, and should want for themself. Each one created in the image and likeness of God. Some would say, its not a child until its born and breaths, but what is Breath? Oxygen! Correct , nothing can Live without Oxygen, so when did the living being begin to live? At the moment concieved and Oxygen continued in that life that has full DNA at that point. Each person is a full Person at time of conception. Each person under our constituion was given the right to LIFE ,LIBERTY, and Pursuite of Happiness in that order. Our Supreme Court did a great injustice to overthrow that right all should have.
March 27th, 2010 | 9:58 pm
Anyone that still believes children are not smarter then their parents isn’t listening to Obama. In most every speech he makes he tells the young folk to go home and teach their parents how smart Obama is in all his choices. Why should we be surprised that there are folks here telling us that a baby has no rights and that a 15 year old that has not faced her Soul as of yet,will not be spiritually & emotionally wounded for the rest of her life for killing her first child.
March 28th, 2010 | 7:33 am
Is anyone thinking rationally at all? An embryo is no more a baby than an egg is a chicken, a cocoon a butterfly or an acorn an oak tree. As for the certainty of profound guilt afterward, most women actually feel relief after ending an unwanted pregnancy. I fear the pro-life cloud is beginning to believe its own propaganda.
March 28th, 2010 | 1:06 pm
back to science 101 , The egg becomes a chicken when fertilized, the butterfly is alive in the cocoon ,yet developing, the acron becomes a Oak tree when planted. The egg when fertilized in a human being begins the the life of that human person. This happens at time of conception. The egg of the chicken will not become a frog, nor will the acorn of the Oak tree become a pecan tree, nor the cocoon where the butterfly develops become an eagle. The Human being at time of conception is a human being, not a watermellon, or a monkey. DNA is programed and it that person has all information to develop into a full grown human person same as YOU.
March 28th, 2010 | 2:17 pm
Some women feel relieved when they kill their newborns too. But for some reason we arrest these poor, scared women and take away their choice, even though the creature they killed is unwanted and not self-aware, much like an aborted fetus. Yet people are allowed to euthanize perfectly healthy dogs that are much more cognitively advanced than a human neonate. Odd.
March 28th, 2010 | 4:24 pm
History Writer is trying desperately to make folks think this is about an embryo when in fact it is about a child having a foetus killed in her womb as if that child will never reach a level of Soul searching that will effect her for the rest of her life. To pretend all the abortions that happen today are merely embryos with no impact as a human foetus is so blind when compared to any chicken in an egg shell.
March 28th, 2010 | 10:44 pm
Many people have a religious belief that an embryo is equivalent to a child, just as some people have a supernatural belief that a supreme being acts on entreaties. But the US is a secular democracy and a nation of laws, regardless of how strongly held are the religious beliefs of some citizens.
US law permits females to decide to continue a pregnancy or not. Washington state law does not infringe on that right, does not require parental permission or notification. Of course it would have been better if she had talked with her parents but for some reason she did not, and it appears no laws were violated.
March 30th, 2010 | 9:33 am
To the writer who complained that we are not seeking the fetus’ opinion about abortion, I suggest you ask it: “is it OK if we abort you?” If it answers “No” then by all means we shouldn’t. Bear in mind, however, that Sir Thomas Moore said silence implies consent.
March 31st, 2010 | 12:56 pm
Good Morning America,
If you want to understand the philosophy underlying the government’s intrusion into parental rights, go to http://www.parentalrightstn.blogspot.com or http://www.parentalrights.org. This is just the beginning of what the govenment and its experts will tell parents to do for their own children.
WAKE UP PARENTS !!
Protecting children by empowering parents,
Eric Potter MD
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