Where Does It Stop, Gen. Petraeus?

[CognitiveDistoibance]

It is troubling that a current U.S. military leader would comment on the actions of private citizens, no matter how reprehensible or stupid. It doesn't even matter that his point is valid. If a retired general, like a Powell or Schwarzkopf wanted to say something, or an elected political official wants to butt in and generate face-time on the tube, fine. But a sitting general putting public pressure on private citizens? This is a bad, bad precedent, and even worse judgment.

[trinite]

CognitiveDistoibance has it right.

It doesn't matter how right General Petraeus is. I happen to agree with his statement 100%. But it's still wrong for a military commander to express an opinion on a private citizen's personal actions. It violates the principle of the military being separated from politics, which is hugely important for checking the natural tendency of any military to accumulate political power.

This is a dangerous thing for Petraeus to do. Not because he is wrong or advocating bad policy, but because it is never the place of a commanding general to make such pronouncements

[wnpaul]

I think as long as Gen. Petraeus merely expresses an opinion to the Associated Press (and as far as I can tell that's all he's been doing) and doesn't call on the Pentagon to take steps to prevent this free (if stupid) expression of opinion, he's not stepped over the line.

Even as a serving officer Gen. Petraeus has not lost his own right to freely express his opinions.

[Pastaneta]

, it's about how many of them actually care enough now to make trouble for non-Muslims in the world at large vs how many more (thousands? hundreds of thousands? millions?) of those relatively laissez-faire benign Muslims will be turned to the Islamist cause because of what they see as a deliberate and purely gratuitous act of hatred, blasphemy, insult and provocation.

As usual, you don't understand. I know the Arab mentality pretty well (any Israeli knows it). If you surrender to what they ask, they'll ask more. If you scream no and that's it, they become passive and whiny.

But a sitting general putting public pressure on private citizens? This is a bad, bad precedent, and even worse judgment.

Bingo!

[Michael]

What ever happened to the old democratic tradition of the Army as "The Silent Lady"(La Grande Muette)?

[CognitiveDistoibance]

I think as long as Gen. Petraeus merely expresses an opinion to the Associated Press (and as far as I can tell that's all he's been doing) and doesn't call on the Pentagon to take steps to prevent this free (if stupid) expression of opinion, he's not stepped over the line.

Even as a serving officer Gen. Petraeus has not lost his own right to freely express his opinions.

Ask former general McChrystal about that one.

Seriously, it isn't all that different. By "merely expressing an opinion" Petraeus is implicitly saying the politicians (including his commander in chief) aren't doing a good enough job. (He and only he represents the interests of the military? ) Not all that different from McChrystal on that vector, really.

[CognitiveDistoibance]

What ever happened to the old democratic tradition of the Army as "The Silent Lady"(La Grande Muette)?

Indeed.

I think it is going the way of all old democratic tradition itself in the face of terrorism.

[Spengler]

I am astonished that the whole conservative camp has lined up behind Petraeus.

An exception is the Hudson Institute's Center for Religious Freedom:

If Islam, and Islam alone, were to be protected by the state from critique, an illiberal interpretation of Islam would attain a de facto privileged status in the United States. Conversely, should Christianity, Judaism, and other religions also benefit from such state protection, fundamental individual freedoms would be essentially negated.

Pastor Terry Jones’s Koran-burning spectacle potentially holds the danger of hurting the war effort, General Petraeus has warned. Jones should be criticized, denounced, and urged — but not coerced — to give up his insensitive publicity stunt.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/245877/burning-koran-nina-shea

[Frodo]

Jones is not being "coerced".

[lzzrdgrrl]

That is not the point......

A military that becomes comfortable in launching a decidedly political viewpoint into the public sphere, may start to become comfortable in actively advocating and promoting that viewpoint. Then, it may become quite comfortable in enforcing it, and suppressing dissenting views.......

[Alexis]

A tempest in a teapot.

Saudi Arabia destroys the Bibles confiscated by customs, since the Bible is forbidden in that country. Has any Christian or Jew committed violence as a consequence? Nor should any Muslim, if Jones and his group buy copies of the Koran and then burn them (buying some book in order to then burn it is the most stupid part of it...)

What is most distressful is that Jones was completely unknown before that publicity stunt. Had so many US leaders, civilian and military, not jumped at it and aired on every wave their opposition to his bonfire project, there wouldn't have had any problem at all because Jones would have remained in obscurity as he so richly deserves.

[Michael]

A tempest in a teapot.

Saudi Arabia destroys the Bibles confiscated by customs, since the Bible is forbidden in that country. Has any Christian or Jew committed violence as a consequence? Nor should any Muslim, if Jones and his group buy copies of the Koran and then burn them (buying some book in order to then burn it is the most stupid part of it...)

What is most distressful is that Jones was completely unknown before that publicity stunt. Had so many US leaders, civilian and military, not jumped at it and aired on every wave their opposition to his bonfire project, there wouldn't have had any problem at all because Jones would have remained in obscurity as he so richly deserves.

Buying books to burn them reminds me of a story told of the good folk of Auchtermuchty, who expressed their contempt for an unpopular banker by collecting his notes and publicly burning them.

[Whitehall]

The strategic dilemma for the West is how to push back against the Islamists.

Some would have us appease them but that eventually leads to forced conversions or dihmmitude and the lose of our Constitutional freedoms. Look to the Hartford City Council and their prayers to Allah or to the Cordoba Mosque.

Others would burn Korans but that risks polarizing the mass of non-Islamist Muslims and escalating the culture wars.

Still others would nuke Mecca upon the next Islamist terrorist attack.

Looks like the bulk of American citizens are getting ahead of our ruling class who hope to de-escalate tensions in the long-term hope that the West's material and secular comforts and attractions will defuse Islam's religous fervors. Everyday Americans seem to be stiffening against continued lost of life, war-time restrictions at airports, etc, and the deliberate insults.

So long as petroleum wealth literally empowers Muslim societies, this problem will remain. Left to their own devices, without this great found wealth, Islam would continue its long-term retreat.

[Frodo]

That is not the point......

A military that becomes comfortable in launching a decidedly political viewpoint into the public sphere, may start to become comfortable in actively advocating and promoting that viewpoint. Then, it may become quite comfortable in enforcing it, and suppressing dissenting views.......

Let me know when Jones is in military detention.

[Frodo]

A tempest in a teapot.

Saudi Arabia destroys the Bibles confiscated by customs, since the Bible is forbidden in that country. Has any Christian or Jew committed violence as a consequence? Nor should any Muslim, if Jones and his group buy copies of the Koran and then burn them (buying some book in order to then burn it is the most stupid part of it...)

What is most distressful is that Jones was completely unknown before that publicity stunt. Had so many US leaders, civilian and military, not jumped at it and aired on every wave their opposition to his bonfire project, there wouldn't have had any problem at all because Jones would have remained in obscurity as he so richly deserves.

Buying books to burn them reminds me of a story told of the good folk of Auchtermuchty, who expressed their contempt for an unpopular banker by collecting his notes and publicly burning them.

Did the banker get rich by printing more notes for the idiots to burn? Perhaps selling Korans in Florida would be a good business.