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Spengler Forum at First Things • View topic - Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Done Before

For discussion of David P. Goldman's writings

Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Done Before

Discussion on Spengler's blog postings and essays.

Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby BWoB » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:09 pm

ellens wrote:... it shows how David can defeat Goliath, in spite of the size differential. ... The real software is brainpower. And thankfully, Israel still has a large superiority in that over all of its Arab and Muslim neighbors.


It's interesting that you choose what may be the most misunderstood biblical allusion in history here. That story is not about the little guy, against all odds, beating the big guy. That's a bit of a romantic interpretation. In fact, it is about the brave but also smart guy with the stand-off weapon beating the lummox with the heavy armor and the close combat weapons. The sling in the hands of a skillful user was deadly. It could accelerate a billiard ball size stone to speeds in excess of 60 mph (88 fps). Judges 20: 15-16 says the tribe of Benjamin had an elite group of 700 southpaws who could sling shots "at a hairs breadth and not miss."

There's a comparable scene in film. In Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones is suddenly confronted with a huge, scimitar wielding opponent, He dismissively draws his .357 and shoots him. A pious (perhaps overly) preacher of my acquaintance once said "David chose five 'smooth' (that is, 'spherical' as well as 'not coarse') stones because Goliath had four brothers." In fact, I think David was making a humble calculation: I may miss once or twice, or hit his armor, but give me five shots and I'll nail this uncircumcised loser between the eyes.

A favorite Spenglerism of mine is "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong. But that's the way to bet." Goliath never had a chance. The smart money was on David, but he was the only one who knew it. And thus, Saul has slain his thousands, but David his ten thousands.

Stay sharp, David. Goliath's brothers are still out there.
Last edited by BWoB on Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"That's what we all are. Amateurs. We don't live long enough to be anything else." - Charlie Chaplin
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby hoosiernorm » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:11 pm

I wonder who wrote the ladder logic for the facility?
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby ellens » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:12 pm

This Iranian fiasco, following the Wall Street financial fiasco, only emphasizes how totally dependent our most important institutions have become on math and IT geniuses. I sat next to a math PhD (from Cambridge University, although he was American) at a Commentary magazine dinner a few years ago. He insisted that the algorithms used by the quants on Wall St. regarding risk showed a 1 in a million chance of catastrophe. Obviously, any detailed discussion would be far beyond my comprehension. My only instinctual response was, "buddy, we just hit the 1 in a million probability."

Apropos of this, my oldest son attended a yeshiva elementary school in the Bronx. By 8th grade, it was clear he was very advanced in his mathematical understanding. His math teacher was a saintly older man who was also a rabbi. I thought he would encourage my son to become a talmudic scholar, since that is usually where they shunt boys with highly analytical minds. Instead, he encouraged him to study math in college and go on for a PhD. What does a good Jewish boy do with a math PhD, other than become a professor, though? I don't want any more academics in my family. The tenure process is a real killer. Well, now that he is in graduate school, guess who is coming recruiting? Security agencies who want people to create and crack cyber codes.

That's the next frontier in spy games. Forget about James Bond, or Golda Meir disguised as a man going to talk with King Hussein, or the British cat lady in Beirut who spied on the PLO for Israel and helped to assassinate the Red Prince. It's the math geeks and computer geniuses who are now the key players.
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby BWoB » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:17 pm

ellens wrote: ... Security agencies who want people to create and crack cyber codes.

That's the next frontier in spy games. Forget about James Bond, or Golda Meir disguised as a man going to talk with King Hussein, or the British cat lady in Beirut who spied on the PLO for Israel and helped to assassinate the Red Prince. It's the math geeks and computer geniuses who are now the key players.


It's always been that way. James Bond is, mostly, a myth. Think of the Union signalmen cracking the Confederate code and discovering the Confederates had cracked theirs (in time for Chancellorsville), or Joseph Rochefort and his geek squad cracking the IJN-25 and handing the Nimitz Yamamoto's plans at Midway, or Alan Turing and his Enigma group.

Cloak and dagger work makes up maybe 2% of that stuff and one of their fundamental rules is "Do NOT draw attention to yourself." James Bond would be KIA on his first mission.
"That's what we all are. Amateurs. We don't live long enough to be anything else." - Charlie Chaplin
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby Richard Greene » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:17 pm

thenachash wrote:I am convinced this is a joint Russia/Israel operation! I suspect that while Russia may be providing Iran with missiles and nuclear technology, this is all about one thing only and that is MONEY!!! Most likely they r selling these super advanced systems to Israels enemies but providing the Israelis with all the secret codes necessary to render them ineffective. Its like a theatrical performance with Israel PUBLICLY complaining to Russia about the transfer of this critical technology and making a big fuss about it. After all the bitching and moaning the two sides r probably having a HUGE laugh PRIVATELY over a few bottles of Stolichnaya yucking it up together about what a bunch of idiots the Iranians r! Look for the Russians to be paid handsomely to come in and "fix" the problem in the future. Till the next bug comes! BRAVO!!! :D)


thenachash:

I recall last year a very mysterious "quickie" visit by the Israeli prime minister to Russia. Maybe that's when this was hatched....
Last edited by Richard Greene on Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby Richard Greene » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:23 pm

ellens wrote: You see, now that communism is dead, and the Jews are mostly gone from Russia, what we could call a "beautiful, cynical" friendship between Jews and Russians is now possible, with the help of a glass tea (as it is said in Hebrew), or a glass of vodka.

And some 50% of the world's chess grandmasters are Jews or of Jewish descent. :mrgreen: :wink: :!: :lol: Excuse me for kvelling.....
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby Richard Greene » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:40 pm

ellens wrote: It's the math geeks and computer geniuses who are now the key players.


Funny, I was thinking this exact thought today before I saw this thread. Truth indeed is stranger than fiction. Being a student of WWII, I note the similarities between the British lads at Bletchley House who early on cracked the German cipher codes and the Americans who did the same re the Japanese codes (Churchill said that during wartime the truth must be protected by a bodyguard of lies — the Israelis seem to have this down pat).

In any event, the WWII codebreakers saved many, many lives. God bless the cyber-terrorists — whoever & wherever they are — who stop the Iranian nuclear program.
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby Richard Greene » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:16 am

Spengler wrote: No doubt there is an element of psy-ops. Computer controls are finicky at best, and if the Iranian systems are compromised in some way, they cannot know how many "logic bombs" will go off in the future, or which of their IT people might be wandering about with a USB drive containing additional worms. I have no way of sorting truth from psywar. How cool would it be if the story checked out?


Nor do the Iranians.

The thing that one can be certain about in the upshot of this whole affair is the tremendous element of uncertainty now hanging over all computers in Iran. The West wins and Iran loses, no matter the ultimate outcome, i.e., even if nothing ever goes ka-boooom. The thing about cyber warfare tactics is the built-in in terrorem effect — the malware trigger never has to actually be pulled, the cyber-missile need never explode to cause big-time headaches to the victims. This indeed is classical Jewish assymetric warfare (hat tip to BWoB).

Too friggin' cool!
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby Richard Greene » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:50 pm

It gets better>


Da Joooos!…

File Name Inside Stuxnet Computer Virus Targeting Iranian Nuke Program Points to Old Testament Tale Where Jews Preempt Persian Plot to Destroy Them(NY Times)
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/09/30/file ... troy-them/

Deep inside the computer worm that some specialists suspect is aimed at slowing Iran’s race for a nuclear weapon lies what could be a fleeting reference to the Book of Esther, the Old Testament tale in which the Jews pre-empt a Persian plot to destroy them.

That use of the word “Myrtus” — which can be read as an allusion to Esther — to name a file inside the code is one of several murky clues that have emerged as computer experts try to trace the origin and purpose of the rogue Stuxnet program, which seeks out a specific kind of command module for industrial equipment.

Not surprisingly, the Israelis are not saying whether Stuxnet has any connection to the secretive cyberwar unit it has built inside Israel’s intelligence service. Nor is the Obama administration, which while talking about cyberdefenses has also rapidly ramped up a broad covert program, inherited from the Bush administration, to undermine Iran’s nuclear program. In interviews in several countries, experts in both cyberwar and nuclear enrichment technology say the Stuxnet mystery may never be solved.

There are many competing explanations for myrtus, which could simply signify myrtle, a plant important to many cultures in the region. But some security experts see the reference as a signature allusion to Esther, a clear warning in a mounting technological and psychological battle as Israel and its allies try to breach Tehran’s most heavily guarded project. Others doubt the Israelis were involved and say the word could have been inserted as deliberate misinformation, to implicate Israel.

“The Iranians are already paranoid about the fact that some of their scientists have defected and several of their secret nuclear sites have been revealed,” one former intelligence official who still works on Iran issues said recently. “Whatever the origin and purpose of Stuxnet, it ramps up the psychological pressure.”


Can't wait for the movie to come out on this one. :twisted: :mrgreen:
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby ellens » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:32 pm

"Those potential state actors include the usual suspects, he says: Countries with advanced cyberwar capabilities including France, the UK, Israel, Russia, China and the United States. “Who would want to do this to Iran?” he asks. “I don’t think we can rule any of them out.”


This quote is from a Forbes magazine article published last week. Sounds like an Agatha Christie story to me. Now, all we need are the props: Turkish men in funny hats, period costume, old-fashioned trains that get stuck in remotes corners of tinderbox regions.

Each state actor gets to grasp the dagger and plunge it into the chest of the victim exactly once, leaving 6 marks for Hercule Poirot to interpret.
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby Pastaneta » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:01 pm

But it is much more humiliating for the Iranians if they thought the despised Jews did it... So maybe this is why they planted these clues...
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby Simple Minded » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:28 pm

A friend of mine who deals in these types of things claims all advanced technology, especially weaponry, that is sold across borders contains software to ensure it is not used against the seller. Would not this plant have been up and running years ago were it not for delays caused by the Russians?

I think the US should step forward with "proof" it was the Russians, and in the spirit of turning the other cheek, offer to fix the problems. It would up the psychological pressure, and add a little more distrust where plenty exists already.

The Russians don't want crazies with nukes in their neighborhood anymore than anyone else.
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby Denver Bob » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:47 am

Actually the intelligence community, at least in part, based on informed opinion rather than direct knowledge, believes that the Stuxnet worm was designed with Iran in mind.

However, what has happened shows the weaknesses of a biological approach to the problem, though it is fun to see Siemens sweat.
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby Richard Greene » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:03 am

The Iranians should evacuate all their nuclear facilities on Purim, next — Sunday March 20th — for two reason:

1. It is the Jewish equivalent of Halloween, complete with tricks and treats.

2. Hidden messages in the subject Stuxnet worm.

THE ABOVE IS A PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE FOR THE PEOPLE OF IRAN.

10/02/10 AToL piece on Stuxnet> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 2Dj03.html
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Re: Cyber-Sabotage of the Iranian Nuclear Program? It's Been Don

Postby thenachash » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:16 pm

Hahahaha! Well look what I found on Debka!!!! I have actually been saying this for the last year. I cant help but wonder if the Debka guys got this idea from ME! :D

Anyways, here is the link!

http://debka.com/article/9061/
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