oao wrote:Hakeem asked much more than just how Jesus prayed. His questions were exceedingly broad, too broad to answer whilst standing on one foot. Ergo, my answer was essentially "Go and learn it."
Sorry, does not pass muster. Jut an excuse for not answering.
Wrong. Not all of reality fits into a neat, tidy soundbite. Try this:
That's a search for books on "christian + prayer". Over 2.4 million hits. Enjoy.
oao wrote:Yes, I can.
Sure you can. But you know what happens when you ass-u-me, no?
Yeah. I think we covered that in 7th grade.
oao wrote:I don't besides the NT. Neither do you, or Erhman. If all historical documents subject to any conjectured agenda bias are to be rejected, well then, you just erased pretty much all of written human history. You're welcome to that...
Not so fast. Ehrman has specified a set of criteria on how to assess the factual veracity of historic documents and has provided reasoned evidence of how the gospels fail to satisfy those criteria in obvious ways. Since the gospels are the only evidence we have of Jesus, and cannot be corraborated, the burden is on you to demonstrate how the totality of Ehrman's argument fails. Without that, he is most probably more correct than your superficial assumptions.
Is Ehrman's area of expertise the veracty of historic documents in general? Or is it a bit more narrow than that? In short, the guy has found an axe to grind--that, wonder of wonders, also just happens to constitute his professional career.
As to burden ... from wiki:
... In March 2006, he joined theologian William Lane Craig in public debate on the question "Is There Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus?" on the campus of the College of the Holy Cross. In April 2008, Ehrman and evangelical New Testament scholar Daniel B. Wallace participated in a public dialogue on the textual reliability of the New Testament. In January 2009, Dr. Ehrman debated Dr. James White, Director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, an Evangelical Reformed Baptist scholar on "Did the Bible Mis-Quote Jesus?"
wake me up when Craig, Wallace and White are converted, repent in sackcloth and ashes, and join the church of Ehrman...
oao wrote:This is interesting to me, because while Jesus is formally, publicly and audibly praying in front of other people, the implication is that such formality is not required, and perhaps not the norm for Jesus. (And perhaps, or perhaps not, the norm for christians.)
And that hearsay and that alone (outside the gospels) is for you sufficient proof that Jesus existed and abrogated most of the judaic faith, even though historians share the consensus that if he existed he was trying to return the jews to their religious roots and stop romanizing themselves? Do you have any idea how this evidence compare with the informed and reasoned Ehrman's position? Not to mention Maccoby's? Please.
Who said I said abrogate? If you were paying attention to this thread, you might notice I've taken also exception to the "replacement" terminology that others have used here. Please.