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Spengler Forum at First Things • View topic - This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

For discussion of David P. Goldman's writings

This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Discussion on Spengler's blog postings and essays.

This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby Spengler » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:54 am

This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing on the Spengler Blog


by David P. Goldman


Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's regrets to Obama's nuclear disarmament summit next week marks a new phase in the Obamalypse. In fact, it isn't as new as it seems, for the Obama administration placed an embargo on the export of nuclear reactor parts to Israel from the beginning. This we learn from a dispatch last night in the Israeli daily Maariv.

The United States has begun denying visas to Israel's nuclear scientists, according to the Hebrew-language daily Maariv. Workers at the reactor in Dimona told the paper that they had been treated poorly by US representatives, and had been told they could not travel to the States....


A former Dimona worker told Maariv that the problems between Israel and America went beyond denied visas. The US has also created a “de-facto embargo” on equipment needed in the Dimona reactor, he said.


The refusal to sell Israel certain parts began after current US President Barack Obama took office, he said. When it comes to certain other pieces of equipment, he added, the US now permits sales only if Israeli officials explain exactly what the part will be used for.


"And yet, when it comes to those who manufacture nuclear terrorism, we hear a lenient approach, even though the entire world can see that Iran's leaders are making a joke out of the US,” he said.



As I wrote in The Tablet last week, the remnants of the Bush administration, along with many prominent conservative Jews, are still fighting the 2008 elections, and in a way that plays directly into Obama's hands. The deployment of 200,000 American soldiers amid civilian populations who are riddled with terrorists turns American "nation-building" forces into hostages. The Gates-Brzezinski argument of 2004 that Iran is the exit strategy from Iraq and Afghanistan is operating policy in the White House.


Meanwhile the Republicans do not seem to understand that they already are in quicksand. On Wednesday, I heard Liz Cheney, the former Vice-President's daughter, tell a Hudson Institute luncheon that Obama shouldn't be attacking our "vital ally" President Karzai of Afghanistan. Jennifer Rubin at the Commentary blog wrote this up with enthusiasm. Karzai decided months ago to hitch his wagon to Iran for leverage against Pakistan, which continues to support the Taliban, as M.K. Bhadrakumar reported in Asia Times Online March 30. The Great Game has moved to an entirely different level of Afghanistan; Mrs. Cheney and Ms. Rubin are living in a fantasy world.


Obama wants to remove Israel's nuclear capability while permitting Iran to acquire one. He told George Stephanopolous April 9 that the sanctions may fail to change Iranian behavior, just as they failed in the case of North Korea:




If the question is do we have a guarantee as to the sanctions we are able to institute at this stage are automatically going to change Iranian behavior, of course we don't. The history of the Iranian regime, like the North Korean regime is that, you know, you apply international pressure on these countries, sometimes they choose to change behavior, sometimes they don't.



We end up with a nuclear-armed Iran to which both Afghanistan and Iraq orient. It's astonishing. Why did America care about central Asian Muslims to begin with? We had an interest in Persian Gulf oil. Then we decided to "democratize" Iraq and Afghanistan and deployed hundreds of thousands of soldiers. Now we supposedly have to appease Iran in order to protect the soldiers who were there to democratize Iraq because we had an interest in the oil -- and we end up with Iranian nuclear weapons controlling the Persian Gulf! It is as insane a progression as ever has been presented in political logic.


I've been screaming about this for more than two years: Obama is the loyal son of a left-wing anthropologist mother who sought to expiate her white guilt by going to bed with Muslim Third World men. He is a Third World anthropologist studying us, learning our culture and our customs the better to neutralize what he considers to be a malignant American influence in world affairs.



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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby charleston » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:54 am

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/

"The most radical president in American history has now thrown down the gauntlet to the American people: 'I run a machine. I own Washington and there's nothing you can do about it,'" Gingrich said. He urged his fellow Republicans to stop what he called Obama's "secular, socialist machine."


“‘This is a fundamental fight over the core definition of America,’ Gingrich said. He told the crowd they should be talking about culture, not politics. ‘The more we make this a choice about the nature of America, the weaker they are,’ he said…

“He said the GOP needs to be the party of yes — by saying yes to a balanced budget through controlled spending, more jobs through tax cuts, reforming government, stopping people from stealing from Medicaid and Medicare, spending more on getting soldiers better equipment, and ‘the right kind of health reform’ and energy plan.

“‘My point is, there are many things that we can say yes to, and if we would discipline ourselves to start off every conversation with…’let me tell you what I’m for,” Gingrich said, Republicans will be on the right track…


“The debate should be framed, he said, not as ‘Obama vs. Anti-Obama, but America vs. a secular socialist machine.’”
Last edited by charleston on Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby Alexis » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:02 pm

Spengler wrote:This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing on the Spengler Blog
A former Dimona worker told Maariv that the problems between Israel and America went beyond denied visas. The US has also created a “de-facto embargo” on equipment needed in the Dimona reactor, he said.
The refusal to sell Israel certain parts began after current US President Barack Obama took office, he said.

(...)

Obama wants to remove Israel's nuclear capability while permitting Iran to acquire one.


Surprising news on the part of the US government, no matter what good or bad one thinks about BHO.

On the other hand, such policy is more insult than real bite. The Dimona reactor was originally built by France, in a time when Israel and France cooperated so as to hide the real objective of the "research" reactor to American weapons inspectors. How times change... :lol:

The point being that Israel did not need any help from America in order to build its nuclear weapon capability, but cooperated with another country.

Even if a hostile US policy to Israeli nuclear armament was confirmed and amplified, even if Israel for any reason needs to import some of the spare parts to maintain Dimona (which I personnally strongly doubt), America is not the only potential provider of such technical help.

Israeli nuclear capability will continue fine.
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby Pastaneta » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:19 pm

sraeli nuclear capability will continue fine.


Exactly. But Hussein Soetero shows his true colors.
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby Ysais » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:22 pm

I have a friend who is an officer in the Israeli army and according to him the current administration a) does not understand the State of Israel and its circumstances, b) does not understand how the Middle Eastern thugs operate and c) will make Iran the only winner of the US foreign policy in the region. The first two ,Spengler, you have mentioned several times. Today you just asserted on the third. The third worldist mentality of this president is appalling...God be with us, the State of Israel and the United States of America.
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby oao » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:43 pm

Unfortunately Israel does not deserve the consequences of Alibama's ignorance and stupidity, but America does. It is the stupidity and ignorance of the American public and elite that elected Alibama. And I've argued it for far longer than Spengler's 2 years.

It was a matter of time for America to collapse. All dominant powers did, America just self-destructed faster. Alibama is just an accelerating consequence of that -- remember the lame emperors of the last days of Rome? America got them much earlier than Rome.
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby oao » Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:06 pm

Must read:

http://www.carolineglick.com/e/2010/04/ ... -horse.php

It is the west and America cluelessness about the Middle East that is the root of its decline. And they will go down the drain before they realize it.
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby Frodo » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:53 pm

Don't blame Obama, blame Bush. Bush is "the decider" who sent our troops to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Bush's mother went to bed with third world men. That's how the Bush family cemented their Saudi connections. :lol:

She had to strangle her daughter because she was too dark to pass as George Sr.'s. :lol:

Hey, Dave. If you can play, I can play.
Where apathy is the master, all men are slaves!
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby kurt9 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:06 pm

This is not as much of a problem for Israel as one might think, and is actually more of an opportunity. If the Israelis can't get their parts from U.S. suppliers, they can certainly get them from the Japanese, Koreans, Russians, or even the Chinese. The Koreans are as aggressive in developing a nuclear power industry as the Japanese and so are the Russians. All three parties are willing to make a deal with the Israelis, even if its an under the table deal. All three parties are building up commercial nuclear power industry for world-wide sales. Asia is going to nuclear power in a very big way, even as we cling to irrational nuclear power hysteria (I think we have to wait for the boomers to die off before we can go for nuclear energy).

Do remember that Toshiba had no problem with selling advanced propeller grinding equipment to the Soviets in 1987. A similar deal for nuclear reactor parts to Israel (under the table, of course) would be much less controversial for the West. Besides, Toshiba owns Westinghouse anyways.

The Israelis need to get out and start dealing more with the rest of the world anyways. Israel is turning into quite the high-tech export economy. They should wheel and deal more with the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Koreans, and the rest of the world. They would be quite successful at it. They should work to become less dependent upon the U.S., both politically and economically.
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby mtraven » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:11 pm

Blaming Obama for an Iraq that is aligned with Iran makes just about as much sense as blaming him for priests raping children.

It is your hero Bush who started a $3 trillion dollar war that accomplished that (the domination of Iraq by Shiites, not child rape).
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby Booklady » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:58 pm

The Israelis need to get out and start dealing more with the rest of the world anyways. Israel is turning into quite the high-tech export economy. They should wheel and deal more with the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Koreans, and the rest of the world. They would be quite successful at it. They should work to become less dependent upon the U.S., both politically and economically.


Indeed, I am sure they are already doing so. But it is a shame that our once true friends are being treated like lepers. I hope the people of Israel realize that not all Americans are in agreement with Obama.
It is a dangerous thing to be satisfied with ourselves--Santa Teresa de Ávila
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby lzzrdgrrl » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:40 pm

SAdly, I think that Israel recognises that the people in America do not run things any more......

What may be more strategically relevant as to being more unpredictable, is, what's happening to the EU now that Greece is basically in default?.........
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby Pastaneta » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:26 am

Never again!


http://www1.yadvashem.org/yv/en/about/e ... T.mc_id=fb

On Sunday morning, April 11, 2010, the eve of Holocaust Martyrs’ and Heroes’ Remembrance Day, a symposium was held at Yad Vashem for the IDF General Staff Forum, headed by Chief of the General Staff Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi. The symposium focused on the topic “The Interrelationship between Community and State” and was attended by Chairman of the Yad Vashem Directorate Avner Shalev. The symposium included lectures, discussions, a guided tour of the Valley of the Communities accompanied by Holocaust survivor Shmulik Shilo, and a memorial ceremony.

A memorial ceremony with Chief of Staff Ashkenazi and the General Staff Forum was held in the Valley of the Communities by the names of the Bulgarian communities inscribed on the wall. Major General Amos Yadlin, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate, recited the Yizkor memorial prayer, and Lt. General Ashkenazi spoke in front of the name of the city, the community in which his father was born. Ashkenazi described the rescue of his father along with the other Bulgarian Jews, his father’s immigration to Eretz Israel, subsequent participation in the War of Independence, and his participation in the founding of Moshav Chagor.
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Re: This is Not a Drill -- This is the Real Thing

Postby hoosiernorm » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:39 pm

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/op ... 251F72BC70

PREPARE for a new America: That's the message that the Rev. Jesse Jackson conveyed to participants in the first World Policy Forum, held at this French lakeside resort last week.

He promised "fundamental changes" in US foreign policy - saying America must "heal wounds" it has caused to other nations, revive its alliances and apologize for the "arrogance of the Bush administration."

The most important change would occur in the Middle East, where "decades of putting Israel's interests first" would end.

Jackson believes that, although "Zionists who have controlled American policy for decades" remain strong, they'll lose a great deal of their clout when Barack Obama enters the White House.


October 14, 2008
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