A Lutheran Reflects on Benedict XVI’s German Visit
October 10, 2011
Joshua D. Genig
When the door was closed on the meeting between Pope Benedict XVI and the leaders of the German Lutheran Church on September 23rd, 2011, for some in the USA it signaled the possibility of an open door to reunification while, for others, it signaled the need to nail another Ninety-Five Theses (or more) to the doors of our churches while shouting, papam esse ipsum verum antichristum.
The blogosphere erupted with commentary on the Pope’s speech. Some offered half-hearted appreciation for the Pope and his willingness to engage the ecumenical issues on the table. Unfortunately, from this latter group, at least from the perspective of one within the Lutheran church, it appeared to be the same old routine: begin by stating how nice it is to have a Pope who has some knowledge of Luther, make note of the fact that the Pope is a true scholar, and then proceed to blast him backhandedly by concluding, “However, it grieves me to say it, but he’s still the anti-Christ.”
Yet this reaction, regardless of how predictable it may have been, was not without significance. In fact, what the American Lutheran reaction to the Pope’s visit to Germany revealed was that the question once queried by Carl Braaten is still apropos: “Are Lutherans émigrés or exiles?”
Certainly, there is a strand of Lutheranism which sees itself as exiled from Rome and, in response, many of its members have made their way back “home” (e.g. Father Richard John Neuhaus of blessed memory, Professor Michael Root of Catholic University in America, and Dr. Adam Cooper of the John Paul II Institute for Marriage and Family in Melbourne, to name just a few). Most Lutherans of a more conservative bent, on the other hand, have been more apprehensive about swimming the Tiber River.
What this apprehension indicates, however, is that many conservative Lutherans of the present day see themselves as émigrés and not exiles. They presume we exiled ourselves. No one forced us out. We left. And as we stomped out the door nearly five hundred years ago, our bitterness has left us to define ourselves by what we hate, rather than by what we love. An analogy: if your girlfriend leaves you, all you can remember are the reasons you loved her. But if you leave your girlfriend, you only remember her faults. Many conservative Lutherans believe that, in 1517, we left our girlfriend. And ever since, we have only been able to recall her faults. This, in turn, has left us in a rut, one which extends to the present day.
However, maybe in the grey-haired, German pontiff, who sometimes struggles to ascend the stairs of the high altar at St. Peter’s Basilica and always appears winded near the end of the proper preface, maybe in him we can find a glimpse of a bright future for the Church catholic where we truly are one—ut unum sint. Why? Precisely because,, even in his latter years, he continues (and maybe more than ever before) to be defined by what he loves and not by what he hates.
He loves his homeland, so he makes his third apostolic visit to Germany in six years (the most of any country except Spain). He loves the dignity of the human person, so he once again spent heartrending time with victims of abuse. He loves young people, so even after a Mass in Erfurt and a flight to Freiburg, he stayed awake long enough to exhort the youth of Germany at a prayer vigil to be the light of the world. And he loves his own church enough that he was willing to bid them to do what would seem to us Lutherans to be the unthinkable for Catholics: to learn from Luther.
From the Pope’s speech:
“How do I receive the grace of God?” The fact that this question was the driving force of his whole life never ceases to make an impression on me. […] In my view, this is the first summons we should attend to in our encounter with Martin Luther.
Another important point: God, the one God, creator of heaven and earth, is no mere philosophical hypothesis regarding the origins of the universe. This God has a face, and he has spoken to us. He became one of us in the man Jesus Christ—who is both true God and true man. Luther’s thinking, his whole spirituality, was thoroughly Christocentric: “What promotes Christ’s cause” was for Luther the decisive hermeneutical criterion for the exegesis of sacred Scripture. This presupposes, however, that Christ is at the heart of our spirituality and that love for him, living in communion with him, is what guides our life.
We are quick to judge our separated brethren of the Roman Catholic Church; we are even, sadly, quick to hate. Often conservative Lutherans mark time beginning in 1517 and, since then, not many good things have come out of Rome.
Until now, maybe.
What the Pope has identified for us is an ecumenical paradigm for true reunification after the heart of Jesus: Love. Not a love in abstraction, but a love incarnate in action. The Pope has made the first move in this endeavor. We might be asking what response would best complement his offer.
Joshua D. Genig is Associate Pastor of St. John Lutheran Church in Wheaton, IL and is finishing a Ph.D. in systematic theology at the University of St. Andrews, Scotland.
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Comments:
10.10.2011 | 8:32am
The Rev. Larry A Peters says:
The biggest thing about the Pope's visit, speech to the Bundestag, and his words to the Lutherans was that hardly anybody reported on any of it... it was like non-news... weird.
10.10.2011 | 12:04pm
Russell E. Saltzman says:
Dang. I should have written this piece . . . though I am certain I would not have written it nearly as well. Thank you for doing it and for raising the pensive question at the end.
10.10.2011 | 12:31pm
Nancy D. says:
Christ Prayed to His Father that they all remain ONE, because He knew Communion was not a matter of degree, but rather requires a cohesiveness of belief.
10.10.2011 | 1:00pm
Randy says:
"...the more the world withdraws from God, the clearer it becomes that man, in his hubris of power, in his emptiness of heart and in his longing for satisfaction and happiness, increasingly loses his life. A thirst for the infinite is indelibly present in human beings. Man was created to have a relationship with God; we need him. Our primary ecumenical service at this hour must be to bear common witness to the presence of the living God and in this way to give the world the answer which it needs. [...] Dear friends, let us strengthen one another in this faith!" --Benedict XVI
At this point in history, you look for allies wherever you find them. Much of the world is not even fluent in Christian terms anymore. A lot of people think Calvary is what American Pioneers waited for as they circled their wagons to fight off attacking Indians.
At this point in history, you look for allies wherever you find them. Much of the world is not even fluent in Christian terms anymore. A lot of people think Calvary is what American Pioneers waited for as they circled their wagons to fight off attacking Indians.
10.10.2011 | 2:10pm
Gil Costello says:
I made a radical departure from the Catholic Church at age 11 and returned at age 38, 26 years ago, after my daughter was born, and discovering immediately all the theological corruption I would have to choose to endure or go somewhere else. I chose to stay because of a line from John 17 where Jesus gives his farewell speech to us with full knowledge that he will suffer and die on the Cross: "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
In other words, on my return to the Church I discovered that our Christian lives as mission, in how we are called to go to the ends of the earth with the good news, there was only one way that lost souls would truly listen to us in amazement and openness—if we loved one another as He loves us.
I decided to settle in a Dominican parish, and from the beginning I was ostracized because at that time the pastor was pro-abortion and pro-homosexual unions, and many of the loving faithful of our parish left, for it was just too painful witnessing the theological corruption of the leadership and how they were corrupting the young of the parish, and in these my dear friends I could see the faithful loving servant Luther. But I was trapped in my original understanding: if I stayed and abided in Christ’s love for my brothers and sisters and continued with what ways I could in correcting them (back then I kept my complaints private in letters to the pastor, that were rebuffed, or in brief commentaries in adult catechesis classes, and only recently decided, in witnessing the horrors inflicted on the innocents, and in understanding John attempting to unite Christian communities in love, to criticize them in letters for all of us to read, as John instructs in Revelations).
This theological corruption at my parish that has persisted for over 20 years continues; and although the pro-abortion stance has gone (but hardly any encouragement to resist this horror) other elements of the sexual revolution continue to be embraced, including gay marriage and mitigating the depth of the sin of child molestation. But I persist in staying and correcting when I can, always in love.
Luther didn’t receive the stigmata, but he did receive a powerful, life-altering grace in the Tower, where he was bathed in the light of God’s forgiveness, a forgiveness that we just aren’t capable of giving on our own: as his creatures we just don’t possess the wherewithal to forgive at that depth, but we can participate in the forgiveness our Lord offers in every second: we can choose to immerse ourselves second to second in being open to residing in God’s love in Christ. And in my relationship with my fellow parishioners this is what I do.
One day, in God’s grace, I realized that God was offering me the grace to live in love for my brothers and sisters in my local church, even if in anger they hurled me down the front steps of the building we worship in.
Yes, I understand why the many loving persons seeking holiness at my parish left over the years, seeking a parish more open to Our Lord (perhaps even starting their own denomination), and can see the faithful Luther in all of them. But like John, I have chosen to stay, to abide, only because it is here in loving my wayward brothers and sisters will anyone outside the Church know me as a Christian as Christ envisioned it. John’s letter to the parishioners at Ephesus is most instructive: for they did everything right as Christians except loving each other, and John assured them that in that alone their lamp that shines out onto the world would be taken from them.
In witnessing ecclesial failure, Luther turned solely to Christ (and isn’t that the best and only place to turn?), and he sought a way to abide solely in Christ, and he decided it would be in the Word recorded in the Bible. It should be easy to sympathize with him, as I have sympathized with all my friends who were ostracized from my parish throughout the years, truly persons who sought to love Our Lord and each other.
But Jesus’ command persists: love one another as He loves us. Jesus did correct Peter with the words, “Get behind me, Satan!” But he did not depart from him, even when later Peter would deny Him three times.
This ultimately difficult abiding, the true sign of friendship (and He now calls us friends) is for me best summed up by Hans Urs von Balthasar in his small but powerful book, “Love Alone is Credible”, p 56:
“The majesty of absolute love, which is the most fundamental phenomenon of revelation, is the source of any authority human mediators may possess. The original authority is possessed neither by the Bible (as the ‘written Word of God’) nor by the kerygma (as the living proclamation of the ‘Word of God’) nor by ecclesial office (as official representation of the ‘Word of God’): all three are ‘merely’ word, and thus not yet flesh. The Old Testament too, as ‘Word’, is merely advancing toward ultimate authority. The sole authority is the Son, who interprets the Father in the Holy Spirit as divine Love. For it is only here, at the source of revelation, that authority (or majesty) and love can—and necessarily do—coincide.”
How many Christian confessions do we have now? Can we count them? At the heart of this terrible fracture is a failure to love as He loves us.
In other words, on my return to the Church I discovered that our Christian lives as mission, in how we are called to go to the ends of the earth with the good news, there was only one way that lost souls would truly listen to us in amazement and openness—if we loved one another as He loves us.
I decided to settle in a Dominican parish, and from the beginning I was ostracized because at that time the pastor was pro-abortion and pro-homosexual unions, and many of the loving faithful of our parish left, for it was just too painful witnessing the theological corruption of the leadership and how they were corrupting the young of the parish, and in these my dear friends I could see the faithful loving servant Luther. But I was trapped in my original understanding: if I stayed and abided in Christ’s love for my brothers and sisters and continued with what ways I could in correcting them (back then I kept my complaints private in letters to the pastor, that were rebuffed, or in brief commentaries in adult catechesis classes, and only recently decided, in witnessing the horrors inflicted on the innocents, and in understanding John attempting to unite Christian communities in love, to criticize them in letters for all of us to read, as John instructs in Revelations).
This theological corruption at my parish that has persisted for over 20 years continues; and although the pro-abortion stance has gone (but hardly any encouragement to resist this horror) other elements of the sexual revolution continue to be embraced, including gay marriage and mitigating the depth of the sin of child molestation. But I persist in staying and correcting when I can, always in love.
Luther didn’t receive the stigmata, but he did receive a powerful, life-altering grace in the Tower, where he was bathed in the light of God’s forgiveness, a forgiveness that we just aren’t capable of giving on our own: as his creatures we just don’t possess the wherewithal to forgive at that depth, but we can participate in the forgiveness our Lord offers in every second: we can choose to immerse ourselves second to second in being open to residing in God’s love in Christ. And in my relationship with my fellow parishioners this is what I do.
One day, in God’s grace, I realized that God was offering me the grace to live in love for my brothers and sisters in my local church, even if in anger they hurled me down the front steps of the building we worship in.
Yes, I understand why the many loving persons seeking holiness at my parish left over the years, seeking a parish more open to Our Lord (perhaps even starting their own denomination), and can see the faithful Luther in all of them. But like John, I have chosen to stay, to abide, only because it is here in loving my wayward brothers and sisters will anyone outside the Church know me as a Christian as Christ envisioned it. John’s letter to the parishioners at Ephesus is most instructive: for they did everything right as Christians except loving each other, and John assured them that in that alone their lamp that shines out onto the world would be taken from them.
In witnessing ecclesial failure, Luther turned solely to Christ (and isn’t that the best and only place to turn?), and he sought a way to abide solely in Christ, and he decided it would be in the Word recorded in the Bible. It should be easy to sympathize with him, as I have sympathized with all my friends who were ostracized from my parish throughout the years, truly persons who sought to love Our Lord and each other.
But Jesus’ command persists: love one another as He loves us. Jesus did correct Peter with the words, “Get behind me, Satan!” But he did not depart from him, even when later Peter would deny Him three times.
This ultimately difficult abiding, the true sign of friendship (and He now calls us friends) is for me best summed up by Hans Urs von Balthasar in his small but powerful book, “Love Alone is Credible”, p 56:
“The majesty of absolute love, which is the most fundamental phenomenon of revelation, is the source of any authority human mediators may possess. The original authority is possessed neither by the Bible (as the ‘written Word of God’) nor by the kerygma (as the living proclamation of the ‘Word of God’) nor by ecclesial office (as official representation of the ‘Word of God’): all three are ‘merely’ word, and thus not yet flesh. The Old Testament too, as ‘Word’, is merely advancing toward ultimate authority. The sole authority is the Son, who interprets the Father in the Holy Spirit as divine Love. For it is only here, at the source of revelation, that authority (or majesty) and love can—and necessarily do—coincide.”
How many Christian confessions do we have now? Can we count them? At the heart of this terrible fracture is a failure to love as He loves us.
10.10.2011 | 2:13pm
Ed says:
In 2008 Pope Benedict made an insightful observation on Luther's justification by "faith alone" and how it is true "if it not opposed to faith in charity, in love."
"[I]t is Christ who unites us with and in the one God; it is Christ who guarantees our true identity within the diversity of cultures. The wall is no longer necessary; our common identity within the diversity of cultures is Christ, and it is he who makes us just. Being just simply means being with Christ and in Christ. And this suffices. Further observances are no longer necessary. For this reason Luther's phrase: "faith alone" is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. And the form, the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love. So it is that in the Letter to the Galatians in which he primarily developed his teaching on justification St Paul speaks of faith that works through love (cf. Gal 5: 14)." General Audience,11/19/08(The Doctrine of Justification), Pope Benedict XVI.
"[I]t is Christ who unites us with and in the one God; it is Christ who guarantees our true identity within the diversity of cultures. The wall is no longer necessary; our common identity within the diversity of cultures is Christ, and it is he who makes us just. Being just simply means being with Christ and in Christ. And this suffices. Further observances are no longer necessary. For this reason Luther's phrase: "faith alone" is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. And the form, the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love. So it is that in the Letter to the Galatians in which he primarily developed his teaching on justification St Paul speaks of faith that works through love (cf. Gal 5: 14)." General Audience,11/19/08(The Doctrine of Justification), Pope Benedict XVI.
10.10.2011 | 5:21pm
Greg says:
I applaud Pastor Genig's sober analysis of many if his fellow Lutherans. Lutheran's, more than other denominations, remind me of Confederacy loving Southerners v. Yankees, to use the polite form of that word. The war is somehow still going. Rapprochement with the ELCA becomes more untenable over moral theology, and the LCMS still teaches that the pope is the anti-Christ. While individual pastors may be open to what Benedict has to say, the two biggest Lutheran denoms in this country will go out of their way to ignore him, but for different reasons.
10.10.2011 | 5:45pm
Carlos Barros de Lis says:
Unity is closer every time we take a step toward it. One of the most important steps was the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
The Holy Spirit will guide our steps!
Madrid, Spain
The Holy Spirit will guide our steps!
Madrid, Spain
10.10.2011 | 8:27pm
Pastor Philip Spomer says:
I read both this article and Benedict’s address with pleasure. I’m too lazy to write cohesive paragraphs so let me submit a few disconnected thoughts.
I’m an Orthodox Lutheran Pastor (LC-MS).
I wish Benedict XVI were younger; it would be good to have him around a long time.
The separation between Rome and Lutherans is something that we should always view with regret and sadness and we (both Roman Catholics and Lutherans) should never make it greater than our consciences necessitate.
The anti-Christ issue should not be big deal. The doctrine of the anti-Christ is a warning for every Christian that we must never put ourselves in-the-place-of Christ.
Benedict has integrity. This is a prerequisite for true interdenominational dialog. Such integrity was absent in the ecumenical efforts of the 60’s and 70’s. It’s easy to unite when no one really believes their own creed.
I think the biggest obstacle is whether the Church is defined by organization or by belief, and how this affects the doctrine of the public ministry. Where I to ever consider crossing the Tiber for the sake of unity, I could not in good conscience consider that, despite my belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, and the belief of my parishioners, all I have been doing (as well as every other Lutheran Pastor over the past 500 years) is distributing mere bread and wine and thinking about the Body and Blood of Christ.
There is much misunderstanding between us. An initial dialog with the object of clear understanding would expose much unity that we have vis a vie the third use of the Law, and the necessity of the Church in the protection, transmission, and interpretation of Scripture.
Finally, we should appreciate (and benignly exploit) the unity that already exist within the Body of Christ. Though you may not concur, understand that we Lutherans are trying to be as catholic as we can. We believe that we were dissfellowshipped from Rome because of our catholicity, not because we were (are) less catholic. I wish that Rome would have absorbed the Lutherans as loyal opposition, as a continuing and beneficial force of correction within the whole Church.
in Christ
I’m an Orthodox Lutheran Pastor (LC-MS).
I wish Benedict XVI were younger; it would be good to have him around a long time.
The separation between Rome and Lutherans is something that we should always view with regret and sadness and we (both Roman Catholics and Lutherans) should never make it greater than our consciences necessitate.
The anti-Christ issue should not be big deal. The doctrine of the anti-Christ is a warning for every Christian that we must never put ourselves in-the-place-of Christ.
Benedict has integrity. This is a prerequisite for true interdenominational dialog. Such integrity was absent in the ecumenical efforts of the 60’s and 70’s. It’s easy to unite when no one really believes their own creed.
I think the biggest obstacle is whether the Church is defined by organization or by belief, and how this affects the doctrine of the public ministry. Where I to ever consider crossing the Tiber for the sake of unity, I could not in good conscience consider that, despite my belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, and the belief of my parishioners, all I have been doing (as well as every other Lutheran Pastor over the past 500 years) is distributing mere bread and wine and thinking about the Body and Blood of Christ.
There is much misunderstanding between us. An initial dialog with the object of clear understanding would expose much unity that we have vis a vie the third use of the Law, and the necessity of the Church in the protection, transmission, and interpretation of Scripture.
Finally, we should appreciate (and benignly exploit) the unity that already exist within the Body of Christ. Though you may not concur, understand that we Lutherans are trying to be as catholic as we can. We believe that we were dissfellowshipped from Rome because of our catholicity, not because we were (are) less catholic. I wish that Rome would have absorbed the Lutherans as loyal opposition, as a continuing and beneficial force of correction within the whole Church.
in Christ
10.10.2011 | 10:09pm
Gil Costello says:
The love, respect and mutual correction that Karl Barth and Hans Urs von Balthasar shared, centered in Christ our Savior, is instructive. I'm sure both are in heaven praying for us all.
10.11.2011 | 12:56am
Ken Fischer says:
I wish that Rome would have absorbed the Lutherans as loyal opposition, ...
Pastor Spomer, the thing that I don't get is this: you say that as though it happened last week. I can't help but think of Chesterton: the greatest of all illusions is the illusion of familiarity. When will Lutherans dis-illusion themselves with a 500 year old posture toward the Catholic Church? And what is the alternative, lesbian Bishops accepted in "good conscience?"
Pastor Spomer, the thing that I don't get is this: you say that as though it happened last week. I can't help but think of Chesterton: the greatest of all illusions is the illusion of familiarity. When will Lutherans dis-illusion themselves with a 500 year old posture toward the Catholic Church? And what is the alternative, lesbian Bishops accepted in "good conscience?"
10.11.2011 | 1:19am
Ken says:
Andrew Greeley in summation:
"Therefore the fundamental differences between Catholicism and Protestantism are not doctrinal or ethical. The different propositional codes of the two heritages are but manifestations, tips of the iceberg, of more fundamentally differing sets of symbols.
The Catholic ethic is "communitarian"; and the Protestant "individualistic" because of the preconscious "organizing" pictures of the two traditions that shape meaning and response to life for members of the respective heritages are different. Catholics and Protestants "see the world differently."
"Therefore the fundamental differences between Catholicism and Protestantism are not doctrinal or ethical. The different propositional codes of the two heritages are but manifestations, tips of the iceberg, of more fundamentally differing sets of symbols.
The Catholic ethic is "communitarian"; and the Protestant "individualistic" because of the preconscious "organizing" pictures of the two traditions that shape meaning and response to life for members of the respective heritages are different. Catholics and Protestants "see the world differently."
10.11.2011 | 2:51am
edmond says:
Mr. Genig-From another Roman Catholic who left his church during the 70s and 80s, and returned in utter frustration with an empty soul and a mind filled with many questions and loose ends, thank you for being objective in writing your article.
10.11.2011 | 9:43am
The Rev Larry A Peters says:
"the LCMS still teaches that the pope is the anti-Christ"
FWIW No, the LCMS and no Lutheran Confession teaches or taught that the pope is the anti-Christ but the reference was to the institution of the papacy and, for that matter, it applies to any within the Church that would preclude or prevent the clear word of the cross and the gracious act of God to save an unworthy and undeserving people by the declaration of forgiveness and justification merited solely by the death of Jesus Christ.
FWIW No, the LCMS and no Lutheran Confession teaches or taught that the pope is the anti-Christ but the reference was to the institution of the papacy and, for that matter, it applies to any within the Church that would preclude or prevent the clear word of the cross and the gracious act of God to save an unworthy and undeserving people by the declaration of forgiveness and justification merited solely by the death of Jesus Christ.
10.11.2011 | 1:04pm
Carl Vehse says:
Contrary to Romish-Lufauxran claims, the Lutheran Confession does teach that the Pope is the Antichrist. In The Smalcald Articles (Part II, Art. IV) Martin Luther states:
3] Hence it follows that all things which the Pope, from a power so false, mischievous, blasphemous, and arrogant, has done and undertaken, have been and still are purely diabolical affairs and transactions (with the exception of such things as pertain to the secular government, where God often permits much good to be effected for a people, even through a tyrant and [faithless] scoundrel) for the ruin of the entire holy [catholic or] Christian Church (so far as it is in his power) and for the destruction of the first and chief article concerning the redemption made through Jesus Christ.....
10] This teaching shows forcefully that the Pope is the very Antichrist, who has exalted himself above, and opposed himself against Christ because he will not permit Christians to be saved without his power, which, nevertheless, is nothing, and is neither ordained nor commanded by God.
14] ... Therefore, just as little as we can worship the devil himself as Lord and God, we can endure his apostle, the Pope, or Antichrist, in his rule as head or lord. [Emphasis added]
And the Missouri Synod most certainly affirms that position in its Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position of the Missouri Synod (1932): Of the Antichrist: "As to the Antichrist we teach that the prophecies of the Holy Scriptures concerning the Antichrist, 2 Thess. 2:3-12; 1 John 2:18, have been fulfilled in the Pope of Rome and his dominion... Hence we subscribe to the statement of our Confessions that the Pope is "the very Antichrist."
3] Hence it follows that all things which the Pope, from a power so false, mischievous, blasphemous, and arrogant, has done and undertaken, have been and still are purely diabolical affairs and transactions (with the exception of such things as pertain to the secular government, where God often permits much good to be effected for a people, even through a tyrant and [faithless] scoundrel) for the ruin of the entire holy [catholic or] Christian Church (so far as it is in his power) and for the destruction of the first and chief article concerning the redemption made through Jesus Christ.....
10] This teaching shows forcefully that the Pope is the very Antichrist, who has exalted himself above, and opposed himself against Christ because he will not permit Christians to be saved without his power, which, nevertheless, is nothing, and is neither ordained nor commanded by God.
14] ... Therefore, just as little as we can worship the devil himself as Lord and God, we can endure his apostle, the Pope, or Antichrist, in his rule as head or lord. [Emphasis added]
And the Missouri Synod most certainly affirms that position in its Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position of the Missouri Synod (1932): Of the Antichrist: "As to the Antichrist we teach that the prophecies of the Holy Scriptures concerning the Antichrist, 2 Thess. 2:3-12; 1 John 2:18, have been fulfilled in the Pope of Rome and his dominion... Hence we subscribe to the statement of our Confessions that the Pope is "the very Antichrist."
10.11.2011 | 3:58pm
John Westphal says:
It has been my understanding that the Lutheran / Catholic divide theologically is the same, excepting some window-dressing that celebrates similarities in ambiguous terms.
It has also been my understanding that the Lutheran Confessional documents condemn the Pope as "antichrist" insofar as the Pope and all he stands for continues to hold the same view on justification as 500 years ago, and Lutherans stubbornly insist on their position.
Also, can anybody cite for me where it is that Luther has been un-ex-communicated? Surely if we are speaking well of Luther now, we could at least get him into purgatory. I'd hate to think we're appreciating his good points but without forgiving him his 'faults'.
It has also been my understanding that the Lutheran Confessional documents condemn the Pope as "antichrist" insofar as the Pope and all he stands for continues to hold the same view on justification as 500 years ago, and Lutherans stubbornly insist on their position.
Also, can anybody cite for me where it is that Luther has been un-ex-communicated? Surely if we are speaking well of Luther now, we could at least get him into purgatory. I'd hate to think we're appreciating his good points but without forgiving him his 'faults'.
10.11.2011 | 5:22pm
A.M. says:
One of the most powerful prayers and promises in Scripture is 'Father , they be one that the world may believe' ; Papacy has been God's gift , in helping His Church , to have that unity in faith , in interpretation of His word and ways , through the centuries , with the asurance that in matters of faith and morals ,
She will not be misled !
Our Lord apponting Peter , to tend and feed ..the promise of gates of hell not prevailing ..the cautionary words of Peter , about how the ignorant and unstable would distort words of St.Paul ..
the repercussions in Old Testament for those who rebelled against His anointed , such as Moses ..the reprcussion we too see in massive amounts , in the origin and apostacies of Islam, ccommunism ..
Recognising who all have been in the role of the 'divisor' /destroyer through the history of The Church would have made it rather easy to recognise who is the real one against The Lord !
There is St.Padre Pio , who showed his trust in The Lord , by obediant suffering when the occasion rose ; he was gifted enough to promise the people of his place that they will be protected , during WW11.
If Luthur had been blessed to deal with the root of deep bitterness against his own father , may be he would have easily seen the error in his arrogant ways and lies which became a spark thrown into the midst of persons fostering simliar hatreds and greed !
How difft history would have been for Germany and the world , if the father hatred in one person had found the true grace in Christ that Luthur thought that he alone knew all about !
In these days of internet, may be the lies/errors will get exposed more !
Meanwhile , the papacy and the Holy Fathers - may they continue to get blessed in abundance , from the persecution because of His Name , because of carrying out the roles they are to , in tending and feeding the lamb and the sheep and the rest of us, continue to bring all, to His mercy , trusting in Him and as per His timely exhortation to His Bride , The Church through The Father r figure and holy saints !
She will not be misled !
Our Lord apponting Peter , to tend and feed ..the promise of gates of hell not prevailing ..the cautionary words of Peter , about how the ignorant and unstable would distort words of St.Paul ..
the repercussions in Old Testament for those who rebelled against His anointed , such as Moses ..the reprcussion we too see in massive amounts , in the origin and apostacies of Islam, ccommunism ..
Recognising who all have been in the role of the 'divisor' /destroyer through the history of The Church would have made it rather easy to recognise who is the real one against The Lord !
There is St.Padre Pio , who showed his trust in The Lord , by obediant suffering when the occasion rose ; he was gifted enough to promise the people of his place that they will be protected , during WW11.
If Luthur had been blessed to deal with the root of deep bitterness against his own father , may be he would have easily seen the error in his arrogant ways and lies which became a spark thrown into the midst of persons fostering simliar hatreds and greed !
How difft history would have been for Germany and the world , if the father hatred in one person had found the true grace in Christ that Luthur thought that he alone knew all about !
In these days of internet, may be the lies/errors will get exposed more !
Meanwhile , the papacy and the Holy Fathers - may they continue to get blessed in abundance , from the persecution because of His Name , because of carrying out the roles they are to , in tending and feeding the lamb and the sheep and the rest of us, continue to bring all, to His mercy , trusting in Him and as per His timely exhortation to His Bride , The Church through The Father r figure and holy saints !
10.12.2011 | 9:48am
stanley bead says:
@A.M. -
And how wonderful if you learned to spell.
Luthur? WW eleven?
And unsubstantiated charges against Luther, as ad hominem, still do nothing to address his primary qualms with Rome, which were theological, and very rigorously laid out. Don't attack the person, show me how he was wrong on justification.
And go find a spelling tutor.
And how wonderful if you learned to spell.
Luthur? WW eleven?
And unsubstantiated charges against Luther, as ad hominem, still do nothing to address his primary qualms with Rome, which were theological, and very rigorously laid out. Don't attack the person, show me how he was wrong on justification.
And go find a spelling tutor.
10.13.2011 | 4:32pm
A.M. says:
@ Stanley bead -
Thank you for the correction .
Apologies for the misspellings , esp. on the name of Luther ; it was unintentional and no way meant to rhyme with the name of a more sinister character !
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/matluther.htm - outlines some of the errors of Luther's theoloy ; true , the author is in a schismatic sect but the points worth noting , only so that all of Luther's words and teachings would not be taken with an infallible meaning , esp. when it comes to something as serious as maligning the papacy and thus indirectly the whole Church ,The One who established that Church , The One who sent Him and thus keeping away those who otherwise would enter !
The article by Mr.Brumley , noted previously in First things too ( which I had missed reading ) on the Holy Father's gracious words about Luther - http://insightscoop.typepad.com/2004/2011/09/martin-luther-is-not-a-popular-figure-in-most-catholic-circles-.html - hopefully would serve as mutual guideline in these matters for many .
My posts are often with the intent that there could be persons among the F.T readership who are in the beginning stages of faith who like to hear diverse points and the truth as experienced from a Catholic perspective ; the limitations in spelling, grammar , style are there ; yet , a few such gnats , seems most persons are gracious enough to ignore them , if it helps to keep atleast a few from having to swallow camels !
Would make efforts though , to deal with the carelessness !
Thank you and God Bless !
Thank you for the correction .
Apologies for the misspellings , esp. on the name of Luther ; it was unintentional and no way meant to rhyme with the name of a more sinister character !
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/matluther.htm - outlines some of the errors of Luther's theoloy ; true , the author is in a schismatic sect but the points worth noting , only so that all of Luther's words and teachings would not be taken with an infallible meaning , esp. when it comes to something as serious as maligning the papacy and thus indirectly the whole Church ,The One who established that Church , The One who sent Him and thus keeping away those who otherwise would enter !
The article by Mr.Brumley , noted previously in First things too ( which I had missed reading ) on the Holy Father's gracious words about Luther - http://insightscoop.typepad.com/2004/2011/09/martin-luther-is-not-a-popular-figure-in-most-catholic-circles-.html - hopefully would serve as mutual guideline in these matters for many .
My posts are often with the intent that there could be persons among the F.T readership who are in the beginning stages of faith who like to hear diverse points and the truth as experienced from a Catholic perspective ; the limitations in spelling, grammar , style are there ; yet , a few such gnats , seems most persons are gracious enough to ignore them , if it helps to keep atleast a few from having to swallow camels !
Would make efforts though , to deal with the carelessness !
Thank you and God Bless !
