In this episode of the First Things Podcast, associate editor Julia Yost talks the ins and outs and ups and downs of natural family planning with two special guests. Catholic writer and self-proclaimed “science nerd” Leah Libresco joins this segment, as does her fiancé, assisant editor Alexi Sargeant. Leah explains what NFP teaches about the body that sex ed doesn’t. Questions are raised about the Holy Sex! school of NFP promotion. Then: Julia is joined by editor Rusty Reno, and again by Leah—now in her capacity as news writer for ESPN’s FiveThirtyEight. Why are Catholic Republicans defecting from Trump, while Evangelicals are staying put? Rusty argues that a Trump presidency would be good for religious conservatives—precisely because Trump isn’t one of us. Finally: Literary editor Matthew Schmitz joins Julia to discuss Pope Francis’s new commission on women deacons. Matthew argued this week in the Catholic Herald that ordaining women as deacons would turn the Mass into “a play of feminine subservience.” Julia opposes both women and deacons—as well as women deacons.