The fat lady hasn’t sung. A large majority of the people want opponents of Obamacare to keep fighting it, according to a CBS poll. From the story:
A CBS News poll released Wednesday finds that nearly two in three Americans want Republicans in Congress to continue to challenge parts of the health care reform bill. The Senate version of the legislation was passed by the House Sunday night, and President Obama signed it into law on Tuesday. The House also passed a separate reconciliation bill, which cannot be filibustered, that is now being debated in the Senate. That bill would make changes to the bill already signed into law.
Senate Republicans are now challenging whether the bill is truly a budget reconciliation bill (which is what makes it filibuster-proof) and inserting amendments designed to slow down passage. Republican attorneys general are also planning to challenge the constitutionality of the law. The poll finds that 62 percent want Congressional Republicans to keep challenging the bill, while 33 percent say they should not do so. Nearly nine in ten Republicans and two in three independents want the GOP to keep challenging. Even 41 percent of Democrats support continued challenges.
Even in the afterglow of the post victory bump, a large plurality opposes Obamacare.
And here’s some proof that Americans aren’t as stupid as Obamacare supporters think:
Despite a Congressional Budget Office analysis finding that the bill will ultimately lower the budget deficit by $143 billion over the first ten years and $1.2 trillion dollars in the second ten years, 57 percent of those surveyed, including most Republicans and independents, say the bill will increase the deficit. Just 18 percent say it will decrease the deficit.
Lean to the left, lean to the right, come on team, lets repeal, revise, and reform.
March 25th, 2010 | 1:09 pm
Ok, let me get this straight. The conclusion that Americans aren’t stupid is based on the premise that they believe something without any evidence, based on their gut emotions. In other words, their gut emotions tell them the bill will increase the deficit, therefore, they are not stupid.
WOW!
(it is possible the bill will increase the deficit, it’s the lack of data and evidence people fail to cite, yet believe this as certain that concerns me… hint, people… if you want some intellectual heft, DISPROVE the CBO’s claim.)
Yes, keep fighting. Keep spending your time and money on this emotional fight without evidence and data…
Anyways, I decided to see when the first mandate for health care was issued in the US, to get a historical sense of how the bill will hold up.
Was it a communist socialist dictator in our mist (because communism and socialism are the same thing, right)?
No, it was John Adams and Congress in 1798. It required privately employed sailors to get health insurance. It was paid for by America’s first payroll tax. It established the first marine hospitals. It was the act for the relief of sick and disabled seamen.
Read ‘em and weep:
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/3396263
http://history.nih.gov/research/downloads/1StatL729.pdf
http://www.hhs.gov/about/hhshist.html
March 25th, 2010 | 4:00 pm
You heard Our President Obama in Iowa today. Go for it. Wesley, you too like a plurality seem to have underestimated Obama and that champion of working Americans – Nancy Pelosi – the greatest Speaker of the House of all time.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Oh, please.
March 25th, 2010 | 5:31 pm
thurgood,
I really don’t know that she’s the greatest. Granted, liberals are richer in ideas and analysis than conservatives, hence their debate is often more vigorous and extensive, but it did take her a lot of muscling and time to get a fairly conservative, although much needed, reform through… is she successful for bringing them together, or could she have done it more expeditiously, does she establish a strong agenda? Over the next few years, we’ll see how they do… we need some financial regulation reform, budget balancing, small business, innovation-focused tax cuts, and freedom for gays to marry, along with a massive decrease in military spending to help balance our budget. The working people of America deserve this.
But I agree, thurgood, “go for it”.
They will lose this one just like they lose: abortion, ESCR, elimination of the IRS, elimination of public education, rejection of global warming among policy leaders, ID in schools, marriage amendments, etc, etc.
They simply don’t have enough intellectual firepower.
March 25th, 2010 | 5:55 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Vince Humphreys and Pro-Life Healthcare , Wesley J. Smith. Wesley J. Smith said: Obamacare: Keep Fighting, Urge the People » Secondhand Smoke | A First Things Blog http://shar.es/mgOwy [...]
March 25th, 2010 | 6:04 pm
All Academic in the long run Wesley because you folks are not going to be able to afford Obamacare till it’s completion. To many economic indicators pointing to a financial burden that America can not sustain. I even suspect that Moody’s will drop your triple A rating soon and even without that financial burden your economy can not survive the continuous entitlement packages being amassed by Obama and his team of marxist leaning left wing social engineering programs. .
March 25th, 2010 | 8:59 pm
CBS: “A CBS News poll released Wednesday finds that nearly two in three Americans want Republicans in Congress to continue to challenge parts of the health care reform bill. ”
Wes: “a large plurality opposes Obamacare.”
Wes, only a true anti-Obama ideologue would translate statement A to statement B.
First, a lot of people, I’ve heard as high as over 50%, didn’t like the bill because it didn’t go far enough, it didn’t establish single-payer or a public option. And “didn’t like the bill” doesn’t translate into “didn’t want it to pass” either. I didn’t like it but I’m glad it passed and broke the gridlock. Heck of an accomplishment, really. Obvious to all but the neo-cons.
Second, yeah, sure, continue to challenge it and every other government program. Nobody’s issuing anybody a blank check. Plus, as far as I can see, the Republican AG’s with their showboating are mostly just subverting their gubernatorial ambitions.
Donnie, I’m usually with you, but aren’t you Canadian? With a single payer system? I don’t know what economic indicators you’re looking at but everything here has been up since W left office.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
How does making an accurate statement about what is in the CBS poll make me an anti Obama ideologue? The poll said 46% oppose. That’s a large plurality. I oppose him on these issues, to be sure. But I am accurate in what I state.
Of course, in most polls, a majority oppose. But I was specifically referencing this poll. Not mixing polls.
March 25th, 2010 | 9:24 pm
The CBO cost score for the bill relies on all sorts of rosy assumptions turning out correct – rosiest of all that the Medicare reimbursement rate cut will go through and stay in effect. Without that, the bill starts hemorrhaging red ink from the beginning.
Another assumption is that businesses that choose to drop coverage for their employees and pay the fine will take the money they save and pay 100% of it back as higher wages, resulting in more Social Security and withholding income. I don’t think anyone really believes the bill will come in at the projected CBO price tag. Some believe the cost will be worth it, some do not.
March 25th, 2010 | 9:46 pm
Curiously, the poll question and results do not appear in the pdf file.
In the linked article, the previous day’s CBS poll revealed:
q19 Do you approve or disapprove of the way Republicans in Congress are handling health care?
Approve………. 25
Disapprove…… 64
64% of those polled simultaneously disapprove of the way Congressional Republicans are handling health care and 62% think the Republicans should continue to challenge the health care bill.
March 26th, 2010 | 1:30 am
Donnie, I agree. We can’t afford it. Social Security is broke, Medicare is a bust, the states are strapped-I think we actually cut spending in NV, not just the rate of increase in spending. The public pension systems are going broke. We don’t have the money. It’s a matter of when not if. Government is too big and it sucks up too much. It’s such a screw up that it’s hard to know how to plan for the future. Watch out middle class. There’s not enough rich people to foot the bill.
March 26th, 2010 | 7:33 am
David,
Defense expenditure is the elephant in the kitchen. For perspective, consider that the latest annual appropriation is >$700 billion. When China thinks it can afford $3 trillion to build the world’s best high speed rail network, are we going to simply sit back and let our infrastructure and social services crumble? And where was Wesley when we cut taxes and spent like drunk sailors for 10 years – where’s that $2 trillion wee spent on wars of choice? Who is that veep who said “Deficits don’t matter?” to the cheers of supporters of one party.
March 26th, 2010 | 8:56 am
Wes: “How does making an accurate statement about what is in the CBS poll make me an anti Obama ideologue? The poll said 46% oppose. ”
Again, it doesn’t separate the “opposed” into “wanted more” and “wanted less.” That cuts into that 46% to 42% lead you’re trumpeting.
Plus, I could in all honesty take that 12% undecided and say that “54% do not oppose Obamacare.” All in how you put it. These polls are meant to stir up interest in the media, not to settle anything.
March 26th, 2010 | 11:06 am
Thurgood:
From the 2010 budget -
Social Security Benefits – $695 billion
Dept. of Defense – $663.7 billion
Medicare – $453 billion
Medicaid – $290 billion
Interest on the debt – $194 billion
Even if defense spending goes to zero, it will only delay the inevitable at the rate we’re going. The health care proposal is projected to cost about $200 billion per year.
March 26th, 2010 | 12:10 pm
SparcVark – that’s the budget (and it’s correct we BUDGET about 1/4 to 1/3 for defense). The budget is different from expenditure. If you don’t throw the cost of the pointless wars we continually fight into the budget, military spending is smaller. Actual military spending – including the wars, veteran’s care, and maintenance our military-industry complex, is a bit larger and moves it into the 40-50% range.
Correct, SparkVark, the health care cost is projected to be about $200 billion/yr (I’m very skeptical, but it also seems somewhat reasonable, albeit a little low, perhaps). How much have we spent in Iraq, per year, the last 6 years?
Thurgood is correct.
We need to choose how we want to spend our money and how much we are willing to sacrifice to build our nation, and how, vs. lining our personal pockets.
While both parties are fiscially irresponsible, at least Dems, right now, are spending it on our own people and not chasing down phantom bombs.
As for the polls, I think the US is pretty 50/50 on the the “health care” bill. There was the Gallup poll the other day which demonstrated this. I dunno.
March 26th, 2010 | 12:14 pm
Sparky, does that Defense figure include spending in Iraq and Afghanistan? Remember, W kinda sorta left those out of the budget.
March 26th, 2010 | 1:09 pm
padraig: correct, you state things far more succinctly than I.
Anyways, speaking of “keep fighting”, there has been talk of literal violence over the health care bill on both sides.
Specifically, Eric Cantor (Republican-VA), stated he was directly targeted. It appears he may been a victim of random bullets.
Cantor stated:
“Just recently I have been directly threatened. A bullet was shot through the window of my campaign office in Richmond this week, and I’ve received threatening emails. But I will not release them, because I believe such actions will only encourage more to be sent.”
Here is the release from the Richmond Police:
http://richmondvapolice.blogspot.com/2010/03/richmond-police-investigate-cantor.html
It appears Cantor is most likely one of a few things:
1) a liar – in which case his claim of emails is suspect
2) an individual lacking the intelligence and basic analytical skills to arrive at a correct conclusion
3) a political opportunist with no regard for truth or accuracy
In any case, I suggest the people of VA find him unfit to lead.
In recent years, Republicans and conservatives have demonstrated an extreme inability to analyze information, data, and evidence in a proper fashion.
March 26th, 2010 | 1:28 pm
David/Padraig:
Yes, the 2010 budget number is specifically footnoted as “including Overseas Contingency Operations”. For 2009, the number was $515.4 billion for the DoD and $145.2 billion for additional “War on Terror” appropriations, for about $660.0 billion total. Veterans’ Affairs is about another $44 billion, but if the DVA were shut down, its benefits would have to be paid out from another source.
If we cut our defense expenses to Canada’s level per capita, it would be about $180 billion. I couldn’t find exact numbers for their health expenditure, only a think-tanky place saying $120 billion Canadian, which would be on the order of $1 trillion US at the same spending rate per capita.
So, I stand by my statement that going to no DoD at all would only push default out into the future.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
SparkVark, Padraig, etc.: I think we are getting a bit afield here. Let’s not talk defense budgets. Thanks.
March 26th, 2010 | 3:51 pm
Sure, let’s get back to the poll.
Which was a CBS News poll, by the way. Anybody else notice how when neo-cons like what they hear at a major media outlet, they think it’s valid, but if they don’t like it, it’s the “liberal bias of the mainstream media?”
BTW, if I ever quote Fox News as a reliable source, please send somebody to my house to slap some sense into me.
March 27th, 2010 | 2:41 pm
padraig:
I’m curious – what’s your working definition of “neo-con”?
March 27th, 2010 | 3:30 pm
Sparky: Anybody who gives Wes money. ;)
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