The headline caught my eye, “Prescribing Jesus Gets Doctor Censured.” I turned to the story fully expecting to write a post that “prescribing” Jesus or any religion was not their job, that doctors should only prescribe medically. But then when I read the story, I saw that it wasn’t a “prescription,” but a mere mention that did not substitute for a medical exam, nor constitute a “prescription” in lieu of providing medical services. From the story:
MARGATE, England — A Christian doctor in England has been threatened with an official warning from his professional body for discussing Jesus with a patient, The (London) Sunday Times reported. Richard Scott, a doctor for 28 years, is under investigation by the General Medical Council (GMC) and faces disciplinary action after he suggested to a 24-year-old man that he might find solace in Christianity. Scott, who practices at a medical center in Margate, east of London, well known for having Christian doctors, insists he only raised his spiritual beliefs after carrying out a thorough and lengthy consultation, during which medical checks and referrals for further care were arranged.
When the man’s mother inquired of the consultation, however, her son apparently replied, “He just said I need Jesus.” This prompted his mother to refer Scott to the GMC, claiming that he had not offered medical advice during the consultation but instead talked about Jesus. The young man, who has been described as “in a rut and in need of help” grew up in a different religion but his faith had lapsed. He has continued to seek treatment from the practice despite the complaint filed by his mother.
The GMC has written to Scott suggesting he accept an official warning but the GP (family doctor), who has an unblemished record as a medic, has decided to fight the allegations and stand up to what he believes is a politically correct trend in Britain to persecute Christians for expressing their faith in the workplace.
So, a doctor mentions Jesus to an adult, and his mommy turns the doctor in, and the medical board wants to discipline the doctor? If the patient had been 5, I think a complaint could be warranted. But an adult? Jeez, the UK has sure become anti Christian. Remember the nurse suspended for offering to pray for a patient?
But I don’t want to get into that. My question is: Should doctors and nurses be forbidden to discuss religion at all with their patients? My physician and I talk about things other than my health when he’s putting on the rubber gloves. He once gave me a New Age DVD to watch. I am not of that persuasion, but I didn’t object. I was touched that he cared enough about me to share something that is clearly important to him. Should I have reported him to the medical board? Good grief. Sure, there is a line that should not be crossed in this regard, but don’t we want our interactions with physicians to be personal? I mean, are we going to make doctors and nurses censor themselves to the point of utter banality or the solely medical?
If the answer is yes, because religion is “divisive,” then should doctors and nurses be threatened with losing their license for discussing politics with their patients? That’s divisive. How about sports?
Medicine is becoming a technocracy. Part of that, I fear, is coming from the medical profession (still) itself. But part of it is also coming from a segment of society that is increasingly hypersensitive and intolerant of being “offended.” Grow some skin, folks. Let our medical professionals be human beings, not medical robots.
May 23rd, 2011 | 11:00 am
Good grief. My husband and I had an OB/GYN who asked if we would feel comfortable for him to pray with us when we were dealing with infertility. We’re Christians so we said yes, and were very touched.
I guess we should have turned him in to the medical board.
May 23rd, 2011 | 11:04 am
That’s truly sad an reflective of the intolerant meme of our times. As someone who advocates for students in foster care, I often would like to say to my charges, “Look, even though people on earth haven’t treated you with the love and respect you deserve, there is a God who loves you unconditionally and will never leave you.”
I haven’t actually said that to a student because my role hasn’t provided an opportunity to do so, but I did once ask a student’s guidance counselor if faith was important to the student or not. As the student’s educational advocate, I was trying to get to know her better and was trying to think of areas in which we might connect a bit. I was also thinking of getting the student a journal to record her thoughts/educational aspirations in. I mentioned that I didn’t think it would be appropriate to ask her directly, but that if the counselor knew that she did take solace in a particular faith, I might get her a journal with inspirational religious quotes rather than a plain one.
They didn’t know, so I said I would get a plain one, or one with more secular quotes. At the same time, the head of the school’s special ed department and I were in a disagreement about what accommodations the student should receive. A few months later, the program I volunteer for recieved a letter from said department head asking that I be removed as the student’s advocate because, among other things, I “asked questions regarding the student’s beleif in God.” Clearly they thought that would get me pullled off the student’s case.
However, I am fortunate to volunteer for a very good organization that, after conferring with me, recognized that she was responding to the disagreements we had had regarding appropriate accommodations for the student and that I had not overstepped my bounds as the student’s advocate. I also explained that my mention of God was only made out of concern for the student and a desire to connect with her as I made important decisions on her behalf.
I totally agree with you, Wesley-this man was a freaking adult-it also sounds like he was rather despondent and mischaracterized the exam, giving the impression that the doctor just told him about Jesus instead of examining him. It’s also unfortunate because the doctor was clearly mentioning Jesus out of love and concern for his patient. I would think any Chrisitian working with hurting individuals would be motivated to share the solace of Christ’s love with them.
May 23rd, 2011 | 11:47 am
Should doctors and nurses be forbidden to discuss religion at all with their patients? No, they should not be forbidden because a holistic approach to care would include sensitivity to the paitent’s spiritual well being. While a physician isn’t a chaplain, bringing up the topic of religion or spirituality (related but not synonymous terms) is a legitimate aspect of care.
Consideration of the patient’s vulnerability and autonmy is important. Even in sectarian settings we never use the patient-provider encounter as an opportunity to proselytize.
The doctor might have made a general inquiry about the patient’s spiritual life suggesting that the patient attend to this area of his development. The physician could even have spoken of his own journey as a Christian to exemplfy the value of relationship to the Divine without suggesting that patient become a Christian. And by extension, a provider of another faith could speak from his or her own experience. In other words, a doctor should be able to explore faith matters as an aspect of overall care.
May 23rd, 2011 | 1:04 pm
Medicine has been a gummint technocracy for decades, ever since Fishbein and the emergence of the AMA.
Even the polite reviews are not pretty. He studied to become a clown, and the results have made fools of us all.
May 23rd, 2011 | 1:12 pm
I think this is a fascinating topic. Personally, I have shared my beliefs with people when I am not sure what they believe or when they have not specifically asked me. But it is usually to counteract some sort of destructive or materialistic line of thinking, and I always preface it with, “Well, personally, I believe that…” For example, in working with the elderly I might hear, “My kids don’t want to see me; I am worthless.” And I have said something like, “Well, I believe that our worth comes from how the Creator sees us, and nobody else.”
There are ways that we can share our beliefs with respect but I think it is hard to be completely respectful of the other person. A power-imbalanced relationship, like that in the doctor-patient one, makes is especially hard. And there is no guarantee that the person you share it with will take it in the respectful way that you meant it.
Often we are not so much guilty of abusing that relationship as we are of making a judgement call that turns out to be wrong.
May 23rd, 2011 | 1:51 pm
I suspect (but cannot prove) that the GMC is unable to properly defend its actions due to its unwillingness to breach patient confidentiality. The 24 year old man is repeatedly described as “vulnerable” and his mother thought it entirely appropriate to complain to the medical council on his behalf. We do not know if he suffers from a degree of cognitive impairment. Was he “of sound mind” at the time of the consultation? Would it have been justified then for the doctor, in the context of this “unbalanced power relationship”, to share his religious views with the patient?
I’m sure there are doctors all across the length and breath of Britain who discuss religion with their patients on a regular basis. This is only human. But accusations of this sort are relatively rare. The doctor in question admits to having shared his faith with patients “thousands of times”) – but this is the first time a complaint about him has reached the GMC. I suspect there is more to this story than we are being told.
May 23rd, 2011 | 1:56 pm
Unless discussing mythology will aid in the diagnosis and therapy for a patient, I see no need to waste time on it in a clinical setting.
If patients want hocus-pocus, there is plenty of opportunity for that outside the exam room.
May 23rd, 2011 | 2:18 pm
You ask whether doctors and nurses should be “forbidden to discuss religion AT ALL,” but that’s a question that mis-frames the problem. We’re not dealing with casual, non-specific discussions of religion between friends, but with religious proselytizing in the context of the doctor-patient relationship. Would it be any more or less offensive if the doctor in question had recommended that the patient face Mecca five times daily and surrender his heart and mind to Islam?
That said, while I think it was inappropriate for the doctor to proselytize, it was equally inappropriate for Mom to report him. Assuming her 24 year-old son wasn’t offended by the exchange, it was really none of her business.
HW
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
May 23rd, 2011 at 4:48 pm
As usual, you are very wrong about me, HW. If a Muslim doctor saw that his patient was morose and without purpose and said, say, “You know, Islam has answers that might help you,” I wouldn’t object at all. How about if the doctor had said, “You know, meditation might work for you. I practice Zen. Would you like to hear more?” So what? Or, “You know, if you are rudderless, the local Unitarian Church would welcome you whatever you believe or don’t believe. You might find a spiritual approach there that could help.” Not out of line at all. And DISCIPLINE for mentioning Jesus?
And nobody has responded to my questions: If mentioning religion is wrong, what about politics? Or sports? Or is it just religion that is verboten?
HistoryWriter Reply:
May 23rd, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@Wesley J. Smith,
Wesley,
There IS a difference between proselytizing and making friendly conversation. Besides, “you need Jesus” (or Mohammed, Buddha or even the Flying Spaghetti Monster) isn’t exactly what one might call “sound medical advice.” Just as I doubt that a lecture from my dentist on the value of reading the Torah (especially after he’s stuffed my mouth full of cotton, assorted instruments and a saliva extractor) is going to make my gums any healthier, I’m doubly doubtful that a prescription from my doctor to take Jesus twice a day is going to have a salutary effect on my blood pressure. If anything, it may do the opposite.
I’m not saying I’d rat him out to the county medical board for a single transgression, but proselytizing DOES carry with it significant risk of offending one’s clientele. In short, I expect my doctor to practice medicine and my clergyman to practice religion. Is that a lot to ask?
HW
HistoryWriter Reply:
May 23rd, 2011 at 5:40 pm
@Wesley J. Smith,
Sorry, I didn’t really answer your question, so here’s my explicit answer: NO, I don’t think it’s appropriate to enact laws to prevent harmless behavior even when that behavior is commonly regarded as “in poor taste.”
HW
May 23rd, 2011 | 2:18 pm
The irony is that this is bad, but what isn’t is doctors prescribing anti-depressants at the drop of a hat.
[All are welcome here, religions, atheist, agnostic, questioning, transhumanist, so long as they obey the simple commenting rules. Sharp elbows are allowed, because we here at SHS aren't as week as the (apparent) man/boy in the story and his mommy. The few who can't restrain themselves, and so far that is very few, get sent into the Corn Field.]
May 23rd, 2011 | 2:20 pm
David
In YOUR opinion only, of course.
Who died and left you the counseling sheriff?
May 23rd, 2011 | 4:05 pm
Well, let’s return to boring old sanity for a minute.
The doctor’s office is a place for medical discussions, and the doctor’s advice should be medical.
If the doctor and patient want to chat about other matters, that’s fine. But this wasn’t idle chat, this was a doctor giving advice outside of his jurisdiction and expertise. Even if the doctor felt it would help, he should have prefaced his advice by tactfully asking about the patient’s beliefs, and seeing if he was amenable to such advice, which he obviously was not.
I could certainly see a lot of things like this being OK if there is mutual consent, like the situation Lauren described. But that isn’t what happened here. This was unsolicited proselytizing.
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
May 23rd, 2011 at 4:11 pm
To his mother. Ridiculous. Less than my doc giving me a DVD. Silly land.
jb Reply:
May 23rd, 2011 at 5:32 pm
@padraig, So flipping what???? Is there some real law, beyond the incredibly raw and tender sensibilities of you moderns who take offense at everything but breathing (and that is under consideration), that truly applies in this case?
No.
Tempest in a teapot.
(Now watch HW swoop in like a Yawn-bird).
heh.
May 23rd, 2011 | 5:56 pm
From the GMC’s ethical guidelines:
This further confirms my impression that we do not have all the facts. The patient’s mother may well be his legal guardian (which would explain why she was the one who made the complaint). My gut feeling is that this was simply, to echo holyterror, a bad judgement call on the doctor’s part.
May 23rd, 2011 | 5:57 pm
I think the fact that he’s an adult and we live in a free country is the point here. Here’s an example: once, during a discussion with my therapist, I mentioned problems that I had experienced at church growing up and my stuggle to find one that I felt comfortable in. After admitting that he technically wasn’t supposed to say this, he suggested that I try a Unitarian/Universalist congregation because he found that that tradition was comprised of open minded people and it tended to have a strong musical tradition, which was also important to me. I’m a devout Christian, but I didn’t find his suggestion offensive or inappropriate at all. I did visit a UU congregation after I moved to another state for graduate school. I found that while the people were nice, my strong Christian beliefs probably meant that the church’s nondistinct theology and political positions would make going there uncomfortable for me. I was not harmed or ill-served by my therapist’s suggestion. The point is, I’m an adult and am able to make decisions about how to apply suggestions I recieve, just like this tweny four year old man is capable of considering his doctor’s suggestion and doing with it what he will.
May 23rd, 2011 | 6:16 pm
So, Raven, as you admit you do not have all the facts, yet you are certain (you weasel word it with “impression” and “gut feeling”) . . .
But sans all the facts, the physician is wrong.
Really objective, there, guy.
Raven Chukwu Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 1:41 am
@jb,
Suspicion is a long way from certainty.
Most of the outrage expressed here is predicated on the assumption that the patient is a fully competent adult. There are elements of the story which suggest that this may not be the case. (The patient’s mother arranged the initial consultation, she took it upon herself to file the complaint, the GMC felt it appropriate to respond, and the official letter sent to Dr Scott charged him with “exploiting a vulnerable patient”)
Also, we have only heard the doctor’s side of the story. No one has interviewed the patient or his mother and the GMC’s official response to the press (beyond a reiteration of its ethical guidelines) was to state that they do not discuss individual cases.
Add to this the fact that the council’s ethical guidelines do not prohibit religious discussions in the consulting room – and even explicitly acknowledge that sharing ones religious faith may be an important aspect of holistic patient care.
Anyone who approaches this with objectivity, I feel, would realise that expressions of outrage are, at this point, premature.
May 23rd, 2011 | 6:27 pm
And Raven
In the very first sentence the GMC says:
“we advise doctors” . . .
And that is all they do, which makes this case so ludicrous.
If your doctor cannot do what he does without some gummint agency or moralistic watchdogs hanging over his shoulder, then you got the wrong doc!
Geez! So many people minding so many other peoples’ business.
May 23rd, 2011 | 7:35 pm
Wesley: I think that religion is a very sensitive topic, especially at the hospital/deathbed.
Therefore, if doctors/nurses bring it up, they should do so as tactfully as humanly possible. Best practice would be waiting for the patient to bring it up, or asking a simple question: “What is your stance on religion?”
May 23rd, 2011 | 8:45 pm
This is really silly. It would be one thing for a clinician to pressure her patient into accepting religion. It’s quite another to merely make a suggestion. To report a doctor, for merely suggesting, God forbid, Chrisitianity, is laughable, but also sad. I know it might seem utterly crazy for some to ponder, but perhaps, just perhaps, Christianity may be able to help this man?
May 23rd, 2011 | 11:02 pm
As in much else, context is everything. I have some experience in this matter of discussing faith with patients. I have been an oncologist and pain medicine specialist for many years. As such, I encounter terrible suffering in my patients. It is my task–mission, if you prefer–to ameliorate that suffering as much as possible. One of the resources upon which I call is the patient’s faith. Not MY faith, but his. I open the discussion in general terms: “Is religion an important part of your life?” If the patient replies, “Not really,” that’s the end of that discussion. If he says yes, I ask him to tell me about it. My specialties, perhaps more than most, require that I treat the person as a whole, not simple the vehicle which delivers the diseased organ into my operatory. If religion is important to my patient, than his religion is important to me too. Although we citizens of a free nation often focus on the differences among us, in fact there is a great overlap among the three great monotheistic religions. Consequently, I am able–without compromising my own beliefs–to use the SHARED beliefs I have with my patient to comfort and encourage him. If I were simply a mechanic working on a mechanism, that might be inappropriate. But there is a ghost in the machine.
May 24th, 2011 | 3:25 am
Unless discussing mythology will aid in the diagnosis and therapy for a patient, I see no need to waste time on it in a clinical setting.
If patients want hocus-pocus, there is plenty of opportunity for that outside the exam room.
But chemotherapy is very profitable.
It doesn’t actually work, but doctors should at least be allowed to talk about it.
padraig Reply:
May 25th, 2011 at 10:15 am
@Blake, Blake, I personally know several people that chemotherapy worked for (and I knew some where it didn’t). Also a few that radiation cured. I don’t know where you get your idea that it flat “doesn’t work.” If it didn’t work for somebody you knew, I’m sorry, but it has done amazing things for a lot of people.
Done being off-topic.
May 24th, 2011 | 12:02 pm
A friend of mine is a Christian opthamologist told me a humour story. He decided that as a Christian he should routinely ask his patients whether they would like to pray with him prior to surgery.
One one occasion before performing a routine cataract surgery, he asked the patient whether he would like to pray. The patient looked back at him in great distress and replied, “Gee, I didn’t realize this surgery was that serious”
HistoryWriter Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
@pauld,
My ophthalmologist told me that he advised a Japanese patient: “You have a cataract,” and the patient replied: “No, no, have Rinkin Town Car.”
Wesley J. Smith Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 6:41 pm
Careful History Writer: Some of your cohort will call you racist.
HistoryWriter Reply:
May 25th, 2011 at 8:16 am
@Wesley J. Smith,
Actually, I did some work with Sony many years back, and heard the story from one of the Japanese execs who spoke perfect, unaccented English and like to kid around with comments like: “I majored in garf at UCRA.”
HW
May 25th, 2011 | 6:40 am
Wesley: I think that religion is a very sensitive topic, especially at the hospital/deathbed.
Therefore, if doctors/nurses bring it up, they should do so as tactfully as humanly possible. Best practice would be waiting for the patient to bring it up, or asking a simple question: “What is your stance on religion?”
I like the idea of asking the question.
Waiting until the patient brings it up is problematic. It might be that the patient would really benefit from talking about spiritual concerns, but he doesn’t feel comfortable or appropriate bringing it up.
It might even be appropriate to add the question “do you want to indicate a religious preference?” to certain types of intake procedure.
June 11th, 2011 | 9:21 am
[...] to pray with a patient–and gets the sack and/or is put through the job discipline ringer. (Here’s an example from just a month ago.) The latest involves a Christian mental health care worker said to colleague that she thought [...]
Links
Blogs
Find Us
Contact