Next Acts in the Legionary Drama
May 5, 2010
George Weigel
Over the past year, members and friends of the Legionaries of Christ and its affiliated lay movement, Regnum Christi, have worked hard in trying to “save what can be saved” from the wreckage created by revelations that the founder of these communities, Fr. Marcial Maciel Degollado, lived a vicious and duplicitous life of moral turpitude for decades, during which he fathered several children; sexually abused seminarians; violated the canons respecting the Sacrament of Reconciliation; deceived popes, curial officials, bishops, his brother Legionaries, and the lay members of Regnum Christi; and funded all of this by the misdirection of contributions given to support the religious work of the communities that called him Nuestro Padre or Nuestro Padre Fundador.
On April 30, the five apostolic visitators whom Pope Benedict XVI had charged with investigating the Legion met at the Vatican with senior officials of the Holy See, in a daylong session that Pope Benedict joined for ninety minutes.
On May 1, the Holy See released a statement on the Legion case and the initial steps being taken to save what can be saved. The statement bluntly acknowledged that Maciel had engaged in “extremely serious and objectively immoral behavior,” some of which involved “real crimes,” and all of which, taken together, led to the conclusion that Maciel’s was “a life devoid of scruples and authentic religious sentiment.”
The statement further deplored the structures of deceit and self-deception within the Legion that had facilitated Maciel’s double life, including an “ostracism of those who doubted his upright behavior.” The impact of that structure of deceit continues to be felt, the statement continued, in the “surprise, distress, and profound sadness [felt] among members of the Legion” when their superiors finally told them something of the truth about Maciel. Indeed, the statement acknowledges that the sordid facts of the Maciel affair “could bring into question the vocation and central charism that belongs to the Legionaries of Christ and is proper to them.”
As for immediate next steps, the Holy See will appoint a commissioner or delegate to run the Legion of Christ for the foreseeable future. The May 1 statement suggests, and Vatican sources confirm, that this delegate will have plenipotentiary powers, including making recommendations to the pope about the future of the Legion of Christ—about which, it seems, all options remain on the table. The delegate presumably will address several of the major concerns identified by the apostolic visitators: the “need to redefine the charism of the Congregation of the Legionaries of Christ”; the “need to review the exercise of authority” within the Legion, “which must be joined to the truth, in order to respect conscience”; and the “need to preserve the enthusiasm of the faith of young people [in the Legion or in its institutions] . . . by means of an adequate formation.”
A Vatican commission will carefully examine the Legion’s constitutions; that examination will have to consider how the present constitutions facilitated the problems of deceit, misuse of authority, and malformation within the Legion. Finally, an apostolic visitation of Regnum Christi will be undertaken, with an apostolic visitator to be appointed shortly.
If, indeed, everything about the future of the Legion (and, by extension, Regnum Christi) remains on the table, so that an open discussion of options is possible, the following notes may be of some use to those involved in resolving this drama in ways that serve the universal Church while saving what can be saved of the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi.
1. The prime imperative for the immediate future is to dismantle the “grand narrative” of Legion history within both the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi—the carefully crafted, nurtured, and inculcated story of noble works being achieved after humble and often persecuted beginnings. Some of this dismantling has begun, in recent admissions by Legionary authorities that Maciel committed sins and crimes. But the temptation to hang onto an annotated grand narrative, in which Maciel appears as a flawed man who nonetheless accomplished great things, remains; prior to the most recent concession, by Legionary leadership, of Maciel’s perfidies, some within both the Legion and Regnum Christi were comparing Nuestro Padre to St. Augustine. All of this must stop, and the grand narrative must be destroyed, root and branch.
To that end, the delegate governing the Legion ought to request that the Holy See prepare and publish an account of Maciel’s double life, with his specific crimes described individually. Such an account would then be given to every member of the Legionaries of Christ and every member of Regnum Christi, who would be asked to sign an affidavit stating that “I certify that I have personally read and understood the account of the crimes of Father Maciel that has been provided by the Holy See.” Such a process would make it difficult, if not impossible, for any form of the grand narrative to be reconstructed. Putting the full details of the wreckage on the public record now would also clear psychological space for a consideration of the future while sparing the Holy See and the rest of the Catholic Church the drip, drip, drip of lurid revelations being brought to light for decades by investigative journalists and the plaintiffs’ bar.
2. At the beginning of his work, the delegate ought to consider informing the members of the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi that, as they gave themselves to these institutions without knowing the pathologies of their founder, they are free to leave these institutions without sin, guilt, shame, or remorse.
Such a statement is essential to stop the moral blackmail that (according to credible reports from the families of Legionary seminarians and students in Regnum Christi schools) continues today: “Since you came to us it is clearly God’s will for you to be here, and you will be turning your back on God’s will and sinning if you leave . . .”
Procedures for the fast-track exclaustration of vowed members of the Legion who wish to join another religious congregation or incardinate in a diocese as regular clergy should be devised. This will make clear that what is to be salvaged from the current debacle are priestly vocations (many of them impressive and of great value to the Church), not necessarily Legionary vocations. Similar procedures for assisting lay members of Regnum Christi to leave without any pressure or stigma are essential to the authentic reform of that movement.
3. The current Legion leadership, at the international and regional levels, must be replaced, immediately and comprehensively, with appointed interim superiors who will serve at the pleasure of the delegate. The delegate should thoroughly investigate the question of whether present Legion members were knowingly complicit in Maciel’s crimes, and arrange for the dismissal of those who were from the Congregation of the Legionaries of Christ.
4. Through its delegate, the Holy See should instruct the Legion to suspend immediately all vocation recruitment, including vocation retreats and postulancy programs, none of which is to be resumed without permission of the Holy See. At the same time, the Holy See should instruct bishops around the world to supervise closely the work of the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi within their dioceses, such that the spiritual lives and consciences of those attending Legion schools and those undergoing formation leading to consecrated life within Regnum Christi are rigorously safeguarded. Credible reports of repeated pressures being put on young consciences should result in the immediate suspension of faculties of the Legionary priests involved.
5. The delegate should facilitate a serious theological reflection within the Legionaries of Christ on what the May 1 statement describes as the “true core” of the Legion’s charism, namely, “that of the militia Christi.” That charism cannot be credibly attributed to Marcial Maciel; it may have emerged from the devotion and good works of the members of the Legion. How that happened requires the most serious reflection on the dynamics of sin and grace in the Church, and an acknowledgment that a militant zeal for the Church’s evangelical work is a gift of the Holy Spirit to the entire Church, not simply to an elite corps of religious within the Church. Indeed, a serious theological reflection on the Legion’s future will have to include a rigorous examination of the Legion’s ecclesiology and its understanding of how it “fits” within the Body of Christ and its triple mission of teaching, sanctification, and service.
Historically, the charism of a religious congregation has been deeply and intimately linked to its founder, even if the original foundation subsequently has split and subdivided (as, for example, with the Franciscans, whose various communities today nonetheless all live in continuity with the originating charism of St. Francis). In this case, however, the founder must be repudiated: Whatever canonical form a reformed or reconstituted or refounded Legionaries of Christ might take, its charism cannot be linked to Marcial Maciel. How it might be linked to the spiritual patrimony of the entire Church militant, mediated through the holy lives that have in fact been lived within the Congregation of the Legionaries of Christ, is a question requiring very careful thought and a willingness to consider a full menu of possible answers.
6. Given the unprecedented nature of this case—a religious congregation manifestly capable of good works yet founded by a sociopathic personality—options beyond either suppression or reform ought to be considered. If it is essential that the grand narrative of Legionary history be repudiated along with the founder, and if a mechanism needs to be devised to ensure that the future can be constructed without the burden of those associated with the evils of the past, then perhaps a dissolution-plus-refoundation scenario should be explored.
Such a scenario might unfold like this: The delegate governing the Legion, after taking the measures noted above and concluding that no program of reform from within is likely to prove feasible, would summon a General Congregation of the Legionaries of Christ. The General Congregation, after reflecting on the record compiled by the apostolic visitators, would conclude its work by dissolving the present Legion to clear the path for a “refoundation”—the creation of a new religious community dedicated to the tasks of lay formation, spiritual renewal and evangelization, and Catholic education that characterized the best of the work of the former Legion.
Having accepted the General Congregation’s decision to dissolve the Legionaries of Christ, the Holy See would appoint a commission, composed in part of now-former Legionary priests of indisputable integrity and in part of other priests and bishops of known probity, to receive and consider the applications of those priests and seminarians of the now-dissolved Legion who wish to enter the new community.
This commission would have the authority to reject the applications of those whose linkage to the Legion’s past would create difficulties for the new community’s future. Assuming a suitable number of applicants were judged acceptable, an election would then be arranged to constitute a committee charged with defining the new community’s mission and drafting provisional statutes for its governance under the supervision of an apostolic delegate who would chair the committee. Such a mission statement and rule of life would then be submitted to the normal processes of review by the Holy See.
It will be objected that such an unconventional method of addressing the ecclesiastical crisis provoked by the Maciel Affair cannot work: The work of various Legionary and Regnum Christi institutions would be seriously disrupted, questions of property would be endlessly litigated, and some ecclesiastical home would have to be found for those who chose not to join the new community or who were denied acceptance into it.
Yet if the goal remains to save what can be saved in the work of the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi, there must be a clear, unmistakable, and public break with the past and with the person of Marcial Maciel. A self-dissolution of the present Legion and the creation of another religious community dedicated to the good works that the Legion has done—including the spiritual direction of a “refounded” Regnum Christi—would help break the fever of the grand narrative and end the personality cult of Maciel, both of which contributed mightily to the current crisis of the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi.
As for the property issues, these will doubtless be litigated, with or without a dissolution and “refoundation,” given the financial issues that the revelations of Maciel’s double life have already raised. Finding some ecclesiastical home for ex-Legionaries whose past lives do not qualify them for admission to the new community ought not be impossible, however difficult.
To propose that such an unprecedented course of action be seriously considered is not a question of desperate situations calling for desperate measures, but of great evils requiring the remedy of heroic virtue—in this case, the heroic exercise of the cardinal virtues of courage, justice, and prudence. If, as I think we must believe, God can bring good out of evil in the Maciel affair, then the exercise of prudence in the work of justice and courage here must be to open a path along which the goodness to be found in the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi can find its way into the future, absent the chains of the past. That requires breaking those chains: theologically, psychologically, historically, and, one suspects, institutionally.
George Weigel is Distinguished Senior Fellow of Washington’s Ethics and Public Policy Center, where he holds the William E. Simon Chair in Catholic Studies.
Comments:
5.5.2010 | 6:53am
Concerned says:
The full disclosure of all of Maciel's actions, full disclosure to all members (withheld because of a false notion of charity), and the affirmation of personal freedom are totally key. In addition, these young men and women will need a lot of support to get through this without psychological breakdown. Keep their community intact while opening the doors and windows, and bring in the formators that can open them up to the greater treasures of the Church.
5.5.2010 | 7:10am
Dax says:
Your proposals are excellent. However, in order to be truly healing, there must be a visible and profound restitution from the Legion's leaders to those who have been abused and maligned. First and foremost, those who have bravely stood at the forefront for decades in spite of deep personal pain. Then those who have been standing with them, either as subsequent victims or as a spokesperson for the victims. And, as importantly, the families of those in LC who were deliberated cut off from their children and portrayed as pawns of the devil. These people MUST be publicly vindicated BY the Legion. Words are meaningless. Only profound and public restitution will help to restore their good names and reputations.
5.5.2010 | 7:31am
Former RC says:
The Apostolic Schools should be shut down immediately because this is where the Legion does it's greatest harm. If they are allowed to continue, I hold little hope for the effectiveness of this communique.
5.5.2010 | 7:44am
DNB says:
Something must also be done about the false advertising of the Legion. The claims of 3,000 seminarians against some 200-500 priests go back thirty years, and it was apparent then that there was a huge problem of truth in packaging. Who were the PR masters who continued to perpetrate this fraud? How did they arrive at their figures, etc. etc.
5.5.2010 | 8:06am
Germain Grisez says:
I agree with all the major points that George Weigel makes in this article. I also think that salvaging all that is good from the disaster brought about by Maciel will require an unprecedented process of dissolution and reconstitution carried out under the direct authority of the Pope.
My only reservation concerns the details of that process, which, in any case, will need to be worked out by the delegate appointed by Pope Benedict, perhaps with the help of the commission appointed by him.
It seems to me that the Pope might well dissolve the Legion and Regnum Christi at once and transform its present members and properties into a personal prelature, of which his appointed delegate would be the prelate and his appointed commission the prelate's initial curia. So far as ecclesiastical law is concerned, the prelature would then hold all the current assets and liabilities of the Legion and Regnum Christi.
My only reservation concerns the details of that process, which, in any case, will need to be worked out by the delegate appointed by Pope Benedict, perhaps with the help of the commission appointed by him.
It seems to me that the Pope might well dissolve the Legion and Regnum Christi at once and transform its present members and properties into a personal prelature, of which his appointed delegate would be the prelate and his appointed commission the prelate's initial curia. So far as ecclesiastical law is concerned, the prelature would then hold all the current assets and liabilities of the Legion and Regnum Christi.
5.5.2010 | 8:14am
ROB says:
This entire episode is a huge farce. No one was aware that this guy had several families was a homosexual abuser in his own seminary and used the contributions as his personal ATM all the while kicking up a cut of the take to select Vatican officials? You gotta be kidding. What will the movie be called, Nuestro Padre's Paradise?
5.5.2010 | 8:23am
Jack Keogh says:
Excellent article! You do the Vatican and the Legionaries a great service. The good priests and seminarians of the Legion are among the victims and are sullied by the sins of the father. I hope they are treated with pastoral care because they and their families must be going through great suffering. I applaud you for your always constructive suggestions and for refraining from engaging in the negative hysteria which so often surrounds the Legionaries, and by extension, the Church in these trying times. In this case, and perhaps too in Ireland, the Vatican has a chance to define a new beginning - these could be "leading indicators" of how the Church can renew herself. For the record, I am a former Legionary.
5.5.2010 | 8:45am
Sam says:
Not only is the Legion aggressively recruiting new members, they are also aggressively fund raising...why??? Are some of the leaders planning on taking off with the millions they acquire??? This should be looked into right away...as for the rest....I think this article lays out a clear plan of what can and should be done. With the scandals now rocking the Church, there can not even be an appearance of impropriety...and those in leadership positions who lived closely with Maciel must have known what he was and what he was doing...they want to remain in a leadership position but this cannot be allowed...and I believe it won't be...meanwhile, let's pray for all those young men who entered their seminary and were deceived and 'deformed' - perhaps a time of 'deprogramming' would help...our prayes are with them.
5.5.2010 | 8:51am
It is worth pointing out that many Catholics seem to have a psychological need for a similar "grand narrative" when it comes to the possibility of papal involvement in the egregious pattern of cover-up of the worldwide sex abuse scandal. Why exempt Pope Benedict from the closest scrutiny in this regard when it is now - albeit very, very belatedly - granted that the use of a "grand narrative" to exempt Maciel from closest scrutiny is completely out of place?
The important difference, it seems to me, is this: In the case of popes, the use of "grand narratives" emotionally protects one of the central doctrines of Catholicism, namely, that of papal primacy. The possibility that Pope Benedict, especially as Cardinal Ratzinger, may have egregiously abused some of his authority to orchestrate an unseemly cover-up raises basic questions about papal primacy that the Maciel case does not, and such basic questions simply cannot be countenanced.
But is such a double-standard really indicative of a genuine openness to truth?
The important difference, it seems to me, is this: In the case of popes, the use of "grand narratives" emotionally protects one of the central doctrines of Catholicism, namely, that of papal primacy. The possibility that Pope Benedict, especially as Cardinal Ratzinger, may have egregiously abused some of his authority to orchestrate an unseemly cover-up raises basic questions about papal primacy that the Maciel case does not, and such basic questions simply cannot be countenanced.
But is such a double-standard really indicative of a genuine openness to truth?
5.5.2010 | 9:00am
The fact that the Legion, as Weigel notes, is a source of considerable grace and blessing despite having a sociopathic founder, is indeed a remarkable spiritual paradox. Now that the possibility of such a paradox has proven realizable by the history of the Legionaries, it ought also to remove intellectual barriers from seriously considering whether other Church organizations are fundamentally similar in this regard. I am thinking specifically of Opus Dei; notwithstanding Escriva's canonization, enough credible testimony regarding him exists at least to raise the possiblity that he was also a sociopath, and that his canonization is the fruit of a "grand narrative" just as much in need of dismantling as that of Maciel.
5.5.2010 | 9:29am
Grateful says:
Thank you for your honesty and courage in publishing this piece. It serves as a source of strength to those whose consciences have been gravely damaged by the moral, emotional, and psychological manipulation of LC and RC.
As a former member, I can tell you that the consecrated women will need a great deal of therapy and de-programming. It will not be easy, especially for those who have been desensitized to following the promptings of their authentic conscience. They will need to relearn the ability to make decisions by their own free will, for they have been trained to rely upon what might be called a 'false conscience' (fear of damnation), which the RC methodology inculcates in its members with great care.
As a former member, I can tell you that the consecrated women will need a great deal of therapy and de-programming. It will not be easy, especially for those who have been desensitized to following the promptings of their authentic conscience. They will need to relearn the ability to make decisions by their own free will, for they have been trained to rely upon what might be called a 'false conscience' (fear of damnation), which the RC methodology inculcates in its members with great care.
5.5.2010 | 9:47am
D.G. says:
Mr. Weigel, on June 24, 2002, you wrote a statement on behalf of the Legion of Christ which was used on the Legion's Web site to defend Maciel against seminarians' accusations of abuse:
"I have been deeply impressed by the work of the Legionaries of Christ in the United States, in Mexico, and in Rome. In the renewal of pastoral counseling, the revitalization of retreat work, and new forms of youth and family ministry, Legionary priests and Regum Christi members are at the forefront of the new evangelization in the U.S. In Mexico, the Legion's universities are helping prepare the Church for a role in Mexican public life that hasn't been possible in over a century. The Legion's Roman university, Regina Apostolorum, is a pioneer in the field of Catholic bioethics, and has been the scene of some of the most stimulating international theological conferences Rome has seen in decades. If Father Maciel and his charism as a founder are to be judged by the fruits of his work, those fruits are most impressive indeed."
The Holy See's statement on the Legion said that"the lamentable discrediting and dismissal of whoever doubted the correctness of [Maciel's] behaviour, coupled with the misguided conviction of not wanting to harm the good the Legion was doing, created a defence mechanism around Fr. Maciel that rendered him untouchable for a long time and made it very difficult to know his real life." You, through your endorsement, provided the Legion with ammunition for this discrediting and dismissal, yet you have never apologized for your role in maintaining Maciel's mirage. Will you now apologize?
"I have been deeply impressed by the work of the Legionaries of Christ in the United States, in Mexico, and in Rome. In the renewal of pastoral counseling, the revitalization of retreat work, and new forms of youth and family ministry, Legionary priests and Regum Christi members are at the forefront of the new evangelization in the U.S. In Mexico, the Legion's universities are helping prepare the Church for a role in Mexican public life that hasn't been possible in over a century. The Legion's Roman university, Regina Apostolorum, is a pioneer in the field of Catholic bioethics, and has been the scene of some of the most stimulating international theological conferences Rome has seen in decades. If Father Maciel and his charism as a founder are to be judged by the fruits of his work, those fruits are most impressive indeed."
The Holy See's statement on the Legion said that"the lamentable discrediting and dismissal of whoever doubted the correctness of [Maciel's] behaviour, coupled with the misguided conviction of not wanting to harm the good the Legion was doing, created a defence mechanism around Fr. Maciel that rendered him untouchable for a long time and made it very difficult to know his real life." You, through your endorsement, provided the Legion with ammunition for this discrediting and dismissal, yet you have never apologized for your role in maintaining Maciel's mirage. Will you now apologize?
5.5.2010 | 10:01am
So Tired says:
As a former member who has been ostracized since leaving Regnum Christi in August 2009, I can assure the public that there is a reason people are "engaging in the negative" feedback. Although I disagree 100% that it is anything but "hysteria." Yes, it is negative because abuse is negative whether it's physical or psychological. Would one call it positive abuse? Jack Keogh is one of those exLC's who drops on exLC and exRC blogs who has perpetually challenged and argued with members who have been hurt maliciously by the Legionaries of Christ. You might say that he has often been accused of "driving the knife in deeper" of victims, including the child victims of Maciel. This insanity needs to stop. This evil needs to be eradicated from Holy Mother Church. I am not for reform of any kind. If these good men and women feel they have a vocation to the priesthood or the Catholic Church - it's been around for 2000 years. Come home.
5.5.2010 | 11:10am
Martin says:
Great article. Especially as it seems the author has to eat quite a bit of crow. I have a a family member in LC who joined 11 years ago at the tender age of 18. I told her parents just yesterday that she should not feel bound by her vows, as they were obtained under false pretenses. I am now more concerned than ever after reading "Grateful"s take. I entirely agree with the author's point #2. As long as my family member and those like her get the heck out, I don't really care what happens to the movement itself.
5.5.2010 | 11:37am
Bewildered says:
What bewilders me is the "turn around" of the Church in only a few months time. This is obviously a case of "The Emperor's New Clothes." Having lived over 30 years in Mexico as a missionary priest, I always saw Marcial Maciel as a devil in priest's clothing. I even wrote to the then editor of First Things (back in 2002) that I firmly believed he was wrong in supporting Maciel, basing himself on the way he looked when he met him, on the joy of the young men in the seminary, and on the numerous documented evidence he had read about the accusations. Did he not realize that the Legionaries had their own law firm? I told him that sociopaths have no conscience and can pass off as the nicest people in the world. Everyone thought Moliere's Tartuffe was a living saint. Although I can understand why most Legionaries did not see this (because of their isolation from all contact within and without the order), I am bewildered how anyone outside the Order could not have seen what was obviously going on. This was obvious to anyone with a moderate degree of human insight. Fr. Corcuera's recent letter, in which he exhorts the members of LC and RC to wonder over "the mysterious ways of God, who chose Maciel to be their founder..." This was obviously not God's choice. It was at most His permission, like tsunami's and other catastrophes. This case is the shepherd who gets in over the fence. I add that if Cardinal Sandoval is considered as a potential leader of the new LC, there is a plus and a minus about him. I know him personally. In his favor is his great fortitude in leading young men as a group, and with great strictness about submitting them to the rules. (They would like that.) But, in his contra is his inability to see into people's personalities. I think any con-artist can fool him. And at least some of the ones who lived in the little mafia around Maciel, if they remain in the LC, will pull the wool over his eyes.
5.5.2010 | 11:45am
lester says:
Given that George was so mistaken about Maciel, what else is he missing?
It doesn't seem to me like he is eating any crow at all until he apologises. Profusely. And in many different forums.
It doesn't seem to me like he is eating any crow at all until he apologises. Profusely. And in many different forums.
5.5.2010 | 11:59am
Robberson says:
In order to fully cleanse these organizations the authorities, in this internet age, must immediately remove all directly associated/affiliated web-sites until this entire mess is "sorted out". Some of which are listed on the Legionaries of Christ web-site under recommended sites:
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/eng/enlaces/index.phtml?se=251.
In addition other associated/affiliated web-sites are listed under http://www.regnumchristi.org/english/.
These organizations have infected the entire internet and millions of the innocent/uninformed people world-wide are at risk. Listed below are just a few examples.
National Catholic Register, Altius Foundation, Regnum Christi, Catholic.net, RC Store, Mission Network, FAMILIA , K4J (Catholic Kids Net) ,Catholic World Mission and so, so many more.
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/eng/enlaces/index.phtml?se=251.
In addition other associated/affiliated web-sites are listed under http://www.regnumchristi.org/english/.
These organizations have infected the entire internet and millions of the innocent/uninformed people world-wide are at risk. Listed below are just a few examples.
National Catholic Register, Altius Foundation, Regnum Christi, Catholic.net, RC Store, Mission Network, FAMILIA , K4J (Catholic Kids Net) ,Catholic World Mission and so, so many more.
5.5.2010 | 12:14pm
antonia says:
You don't even have to bring Maciel into the question. With the mental manipulation, oaths of secrecy, forced alienation of family, and isolation, the LC and RC clearly qualify as cults. How did they ever get ecclesiastical approval?
Dissolving and re-forming is just a shell game, and will do nothing to address the spiritual damage done to the cult devotees, especially those who are still "under the influence."
Dissolving and re-forming is just a shell game, and will do nothing to address the spiritual damage done to the cult devotees, especially those who are still "under the influence."
5.5.2010 | 12:26pm
Thanks Mr Weigel,
What do you reccomend to do with Adan and Eve? Do we need to break also those chains: theologically, psychologically and historically?
You are wise and perfect. The Pope and the entire Catholic community is very lucky to count with you in his advisory board.
God bless you
Jill R.
What do you reccomend to do with Adan and Eve? Do we need to break also those chains: theologically, psychologically and historically?
You are wise and perfect. The Pope and the entire Catholic community is very lucky to count with you in his advisory board.
God bless you
Jill R.
5.5.2010 | 12:34pm
Tweaking Weigel's Vision says:
Adding to and Tweaking Mr. Weigel’s VISION….
1. Missing the time frame:
The need in justice to suspend all recruitment activities is tied to the coming of the Delegate. However one need not tie his role to this for two reasons. Finding the right man for this is key to the whole enterprise, and it may take time. However the Holy See can suspend those activities through a public prescription (so all Bishops and faithful can take note) within the month. The deadline for this announcement must be come by June 1st, the month when postulancy, apostolic school summer programs begin. Bishops must insist on this if Rome is slow to act.
It should have a 5 year moratorium on the operation of all apostolic schools effective by the same date.
2. The urgent need to ask for a clarification of two concepts which in the words of an insider LC priest, Arminium, are now being worn as a medal, rather than a lifesaver. They are: The ‘indestructible vocation’ and as it separately becomes reduced in the view of some only to mean a vocation ‘to the core of the charism- Militia Christi’. If the Holy See was trying to speak to the core of a charism, as if a possible seed, but only in the context of a totally new beginning, it left open for all, namely LC leadership, to consider in this language yet another new legitimization of the bad beginning which most of the Catholic universe now agrees must be brought to an end.
I think an urgent act of exclaustration, as Mr. Weigel suggests and already noted by Vatican sources as a possible outcome, would help them to give correct understanding to the text, with a need to solicit to something new if one wishes to go on with the proposals of the Holy See.
3. It is urgent that the shape of the NEW future be revealed, breaking away needs a positive gravitational force to effect it. LCs who wish to continue need to be able picture the newness of what is being asked of them. Backwashing is emerging because the forward looking vision is weak. Statements about the past are strong, but the future? Agreed the future hinges on the foundational correctives the Holy See will mandate – but so far they seem only corrective with no sense of a new departure. A newness must take shape soon that will permit a constructive and positive force strong enough to destroy the hold of that past narrative, Mr. Weigel and indeed the whole Church with him, ardently wish to be consigned to the waste bin.
1. Missing the time frame:
The need in justice to suspend all recruitment activities is tied to the coming of the Delegate. However one need not tie his role to this for two reasons. Finding the right man for this is key to the whole enterprise, and it may take time. However the Holy See can suspend those activities through a public prescription (so all Bishops and faithful can take note) within the month. The deadline for this announcement must be come by June 1st, the month when postulancy, apostolic school summer programs begin. Bishops must insist on this if Rome is slow to act.
It should have a 5 year moratorium on the operation of all apostolic schools effective by the same date.
2. The urgent need to ask for a clarification of two concepts which in the words of an insider LC priest, Arminium, are now being worn as a medal, rather than a lifesaver. They are: The ‘indestructible vocation’ and as it separately becomes reduced in the view of some only to mean a vocation ‘to the core of the charism- Militia Christi’. If the Holy See was trying to speak to the core of a charism, as if a possible seed, but only in the context of a totally new beginning, it left open for all, namely LC leadership, to consider in this language yet another new legitimization of the bad beginning which most of the Catholic universe now agrees must be brought to an end.
I think an urgent act of exclaustration, as Mr. Weigel suggests and already noted by Vatican sources as a possible outcome, would help them to give correct understanding to the text, with a need to solicit to something new if one wishes to go on with the proposals of the Holy See.
3. It is urgent that the shape of the NEW future be revealed, breaking away needs a positive gravitational force to effect it. LCs who wish to continue need to be able picture the newness of what is being asked of them. Backwashing is emerging because the forward looking vision is weak. Statements about the past are strong, but the future? Agreed the future hinges on the foundational correctives the Holy See will mandate – but so far they seem only corrective with no sense of a new departure. A newness must take shape soon that will permit a constructive and positive force strong enough to destroy the hold of that past narrative, Mr. Weigel and indeed the whole Church with him, ardently wish to be consigned to the waste bin.
5.5.2010 | 12:34pm
Robberson says:
One final thought-In Circle Media's own words:
"Circle Media is a media company forming active Catholics to engage the culture. Circle Media was formed in 1995 to oversee the publishing of the National Catholic Register and Catholic Twin Circle, now Faith & Family magazine.
Today its offerings also includes a variety of books, including Guide to the Rosary, Passion Companion and the "Umbert the Unborn" pro-life comic strip."
BTW-Circle Media-http://www.circlemedia.com/ under "profile-affiliations" lists only two i.e.
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/
http://www.regnumchristi.org
"Circle Media is a media company forming active Catholics to engage the culture. Circle Media was formed in 1995 to oversee the publishing of the National Catholic Register and Catholic Twin Circle, now Faith & Family magazine.
Today its offerings also includes a variety of books, including Guide to the Rosary, Passion Companion and the "Umbert the Unborn" pro-life comic strip."
BTW-Circle Media-http://www.circlemedia.com/ under "profile-affiliations" lists only two i.e.
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/
http://www.regnumchristi.org
5.5.2010 | 12:41pm
Simon says:
Church of the East Member, I really doubt there is any evidence, much less "credible evidence" that St. Escriva was a "sociopath".
Maciel was, according to the Holy See, a criminal "devoid of genuine religious sentiment.". He was also a pedophile, bigamist, plagiarist, lifelong liar, and embezzler. Which of these has Escriva been accused of?
Maciel was, according to the Holy See, a criminal "devoid of genuine religious sentiment.". He was also a pedophile, bigamist, plagiarist, lifelong liar, and embezzler. Which of these has Escriva been accused of?
5.5.2010 | 1:07pm
Roger says:
George is right on. Lester, G. Weigel was duped like many LCs and Ex-LCs. Should they also apologize for following Fr. Maciel with an invincibly erroneous conscience? Please.
The ones that should apologize -and show it not only with words- are the ones who freely followed Fr. Maciel and even defended him while knowing about his incoherent lifestyle.
Jill, you should study Theology..... Jesus Christ himself broke our chain with Adam and Eve. Thank you.
The ones that should apologize -and show it not only with words- are the ones who freely followed Fr. Maciel and even defended him while knowing about his incoherent lifestyle.
Jill, you should study Theology..... Jesus Christ himself broke our chain with Adam and Eve. Thank you.
5.5.2010 | 1:22pm
floyd says:
If George wants to assist in ensuring that "the prime imperative for the immediate future is to dismantle the “grand narrative” of Legion history," then yes, he should certainly apologize for he was instrumental in constructing and widely promulgating that grand narrative. And c'mon, George should have known better. If he was that easily duped, it's nothing in which to take any consulation.
5.5.2010 | 1:34pm
Dear Simon,
I am not aware of any accusation against Escriva of a sexual nature, but there are plenty of other negative accusations against him that can no longer be dismissed out of hand by anyone who once dismissed accusations against Maciel out of hand. The case against Escriva is detailed in books such as Robert Hutchison's THEIR KINGDOM COME: INSIDE THE SECRET WORLD OF OPUS DEI.
And, as I remarked earlier, anyone who once dismissed accusations against Maciel out of hand seems to me to be on terribly weak ground in dismissing accusations of clerical coverup against Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict out of hand.
I am not aware of any accusation against Escriva of a sexual nature, but there are plenty of other negative accusations against him that can no longer be dismissed out of hand by anyone who once dismissed accusations against Maciel out of hand. The case against Escriva is detailed in books such as Robert Hutchison's THEIR KINGDOM COME: INSIDE THE SECRET WORLD OF OPUS DEI.
And, as I remarked earlier, anyone who once dismissed accusations against Maciel out of hand seems to me to be on terribly weak ground in dismissing accusations of clerical coverup against Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict out of hand.
5.5.2010 | 2:39pm
JDD says:
"And, as I remarked earlier, anyone who once dismissed accusations against Maciel out of hand seems to me to be on terribly weak ground in dismissing accusations of clerical coverup against Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict out of hand."
And indeed, in this Journal and in other publications, those accusations have hardly been dismissed "out of hand."
And indeed, in this Journal and in other publications, those accusations have hardly been dismissed "out of hand."
5.5.2010 | 2:56pm
Jeannie Guzman says:
Legitimate exorcists should go into the Legion and cast out the manipulative, controlling spirit of Satan, the Father of all Lies. Both organizations founded by Maciel have had reputations of using mind control as well as a cult-like spiritual control over their members. These actions have noting to do with "Charisms," because charisms are a pure and perfect gift of the Holy Spirit, and it has been evident to most outsiders, who have studied the Legion and Regnum Christi that the last to be involved in the movement was the persona of the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ. The members were deceived, with the exception of those who held power and stood next to Maciel. They knew their founder and what he was doing, but they were probably so caught up in the power of their positions that they sold out to devils: Maciel and the minions of Satan!
5.5.2010 | 3:24pm
Wreckage says:
I am a member of Regnum Christi. I have just read your article and have learned that I am wreckage. Thanks for the dig, George.
Actually, I joined RC because of the witness to Christ that individual Legionaries gave and because of the confidence in our faith that RC members live. I was deeply impressed by them, not because I was in search of a cult to join or thought I could do with a bit of “programming.” Like many others who joined RC, I was reaching out for what is solid. Let me put it like this: I joined RC for the charism of fidelity to the Magisterium and the challenge of doing something for Christ.
The revelations have and continue to hurt. This has been a traumatic time and it’s hard to even think about the man, Maciel. His sins were objectively evil and now he has met his judge. But I have to tell you, for me it was always about the charism, not the founder. Seems to me, George, that you are putting too much emphasis on the founder that is simply not met at the level of many RCs. Let me repeat: It’s about the charism! The result is that I am struggling through this terrible time just as sure of the charism as before.
Some objections to the article:
1. I have young children and, yes, my wife and I will have to address this issue with them when they are older. How we do so will be decided by us in the privacy of our home. So I have no wish to have full details of Fr Maciel's sins sent to me. Other than threatening the innocence and purity of home, what good would this do? Is it not enough that RC members have the general truth without having to drag us through the mud? What more do people want? There’s nothing like a kick in the teeth when you're down, right? Drives home the point nicely.
2. George, you've a few quotes in the article and I'd love to know where you got them: “Since you came to us it is clearly God’s will for you to be here, and you will be turning your back on God’s will and sinning if you leave . . .” This does not sound like the Legion I or others know, including those I know who have left. And besides, are you suggesting that this line provides an insight into the LC/RC brain, that this is generally what we wreckages think?
"Save what can be saved." A good rhetorical line, but who said it? George Weigel? Does George Weigel save? And does George Weigel think we RC wreckages should be saved? Are we worthy?
So, there we are. Wreckage.
A non-LC priest wrote me when the revelations came out and said it's a wound for all the Church, not at all just for LoC/RC, and we must all help each other to continue our pilgrimage to God together. Truth there may be in your article, George, but where's the charity for the regular-Joe RCs? Caritas in veritate?
Actually, I joined RC because of the witness to Christ that individual Legionaries gave and because of the confidence in our faith that RC members live. I was deeply impressed by them, not because I was in search of a cult to join or thought I could do with a bit of “programming.” Like many others who joined RC, I was reaching out for what is solid. Let me put it like this: I joined RC for the charism of fidelity to the Magisterium and the challenge of doing something for Christ.
The revelations have and continue to hurt. This has been a traumatic time and it’s hard to even think about the man, Maciel. His sins were objectively evil and now he has met his judge. But I have to tell you, for me it was always about the charism, not the founder. Seems to me, George, that you are putting too much emphasis on the founder that is simply not met at the level of many RCs. Let me repeat: It’s about the charism! The result is that I am struggling through this terrible time just as sure of the charism as before.
Some objections to the article:
1. I have young children and, yes, my wife and I will have to address this issue with them when they are older. How we do so will be decided by us in the privacy of our home. So I have no wish to have full details of Fr Maciel's sins sent to me. Other than threatening the innocence and purity of home, what good would this do? Is it not enough that RC members have the general truth without having to drag us through the mud? What more do people want? There’s nothing like a kick in the teeth when you're down, right? Drives home the point nicely.
2. George, you've a few quotes in the article and I'd love to know where you got them: “Since you came to us it is clearly God’s will for you to be here, and you will be turning your back on God’s will and sinning if you leave . . .” This does not sound like the Legion I or others know, including those I know who have left. And besides, are you suggesting that this line provides an insight into the LC/RC brain, that this is generally what we wreckages think?
"Save what can be saved." A good rhetorical line, but who said it? George Weigel? Does George Weigel save? And does George Weigel think we RC wreckages should be saved? Are we worthy?
So, there we are. Wreckage.
A non-LC priest wrote me when the revelations came out and said it's a wound for all the Church, not at all just for LoC/RC, and we must all help each other to continue our pilgrimage to God together. Truth there may be in your article, George, but where's the charity for the regular-Joe RCs? Caritas in veritate?
5.5.2010 | 3:43pm
Ex-Legion seminarian says:
Thank you for your opinion on the next steps the Vatican should take regarding helping the Legion through this time of renewal.
I would like to say that during my almost 10 years with the Legionaries of Christ I never felt nor did I hear of this pressure or "moral blackmail" that you mention.
FYI: I didn't find it difficult at all to ask for a dispensation from my vows and there must be an open policy about leaving the order even now as I know of 4 priests who in the last 3 months have left for diocesan life.
I also know for a fact that the Legion is trying very hard at present time to remove all visible references to their founder. (IE. Pictures, writings, etc) Now, whether or not that is easy to do in the "spirit" of the congregation is another thing but I believe in time this can and will happen.
I would also like to mention that all the Legionaries that I know today are more than open to the Vatican's help in this time of great purification. God bless you!
I would like to say that during my almost 10 years with the Legionaries of Christ I never felt nor did I hear of this pressure or "moral blackmail" that you mention.
FYI: I didn't find it difficult at all to ask for a dispensation from my vows and there must be an open policy about leaving the order even now as I know of 4 priests who in the last 3 months have left for diocesan life.
I also know for a fact that the Legion is trying very hard at present time to remove all visible references to their founder. (IE. Pictures, writings, etc) Now, whether or not that is easy to do in the "spirit" of the congregation is another thing but I believe in time this can and will happen.
I would also like to mention that all the Legionaries that I know today are more than open to the Vatican's help in this time of great purification. God bless you!
5.5.2010 | 5:26pm
eduardo says:
This is an excellent article.However, it is missing one essential recommendation. The Vatican needs to conduct an investigation into church officials, in the Vatican and outside it, who supported Maciel in his misbehavior, indeed many of them up to the very end.
5.5.2010 | 5:44pm
Carolyn Disco says:
As part of the penance and reparation for his blindness, Weigel needs to apologize fully to the Maciel survivors who filed the canon case; devote at least one full issue of First Things to their hell for telling the truth Weigel dismissed; sponsor a major banquet for the survivors, Jason Berry and their families, with honorarium and full expenses paid; and invite Mary Ann Glendon and William Bennett to join in the apologies. For starters. Actions, not just words.
Next, publicize and advocate for immediate closure of the Legion's Mater Ecclesiae seminary where they train 238 seminarians from dioceses all over the world, because a faculty leader said last August: "they (bishops) trust us and they believe in our formation...Father Maciel saw this as the solution to that request he saw in the eyes and heart of the Vicar of Christ." In other words, they train formation directors to propagate their methods.
See the interview, where else, but in the National Catholic Register, at http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/15872
After that, campaign for the closure of all three minor seminaries where youngsters as young as 7th grade are enrolled (11 or 12 yo). Here’s the NH campus where McCormack ignored my letter asking him to check out child protection practices there.
Read Baltimore Archbishop O’Brien’s experience with shady recruiting practices for the NH seminary. Chilling. http://ncronline.org/node/1237
Finally, Weigel, ask the Maciel survivors what they need from you to support their healing. The Vatican statement was a generalized, bleached exercise. Here is Juan Vaca’s take: “They don’t say anything about all the harm, about how they treated us like liars,” said Mr. Vaca, a professor of sociology and psychology at Mercy College in Dobbs Ferry, N.Y. “I have my dreams completely shattered.”
Help rescue those dreams, Weigel.
Next, publicize and advocate for immediate closure of the Legion's Mater Ecclesiae seminary where they train 238 seminarians from dioceses all over the world, because a faculty leader said last August: "they (bishops) trust us and they believe in our formation...Father Maciel saw this as the solution to that request he saw in the eyes and heart of the Vicar of Christ." In other words, they train formation directors to propagate their methods.
See the interview, where else, but in the National Catholic Register, at http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/15872
After that, campaign for the closure of all three minor seminaries where youngsters as young as 7th grade are enrolled (11 or 12 yo). Here’s the NH campus where McCormack ignored my letter asking him to check out child protection practices there.
Read Baltimore Archbishop O’Brien’s experience with shady recruiting practices for the NH seminary. Chilling. http://ncronline.org/node/1237
Finally, Weigel, ask the Maciel survivors what they need from you to support their healing. The Vatican statement was a generalized, bleached exercise. Here is Juan Vaca’s take: “They don’t say anything about all the harm, about how they treated us like liars,” said Mr. Vaca, a professor of sociology and psychology at Mercy College in Dobbs Ferry, N.Y. “I have my dreams completely shattered.”
Help rescue those dreams, Weigel.
5.5.2010 | 5:47pm
Carolyn Disco says:
Sorry, here is the NH minor seminary link:
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/eng/articulos/categoria.phtml?lc=se-241_ca-984_ci-801&width=1024&height=768
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/eng/articulos/categoria.phtml?lc=se-241_ca-984_ci-801&width=1024&height=768
5.5.2010 | 5:59pm
Carolyn Disco says:
Ex-Legion seminarian,
Please take a look at photos of Maciel at this website http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/eng/articulos/categoria_secc.phtml?lc=se-238_ca-886_ci-887
and see how he is praised as a guide for the formation of diocesan formation directors at a seminary in Rome to train priests from all over the world in Maciel's methods. http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/15872
A lot of someones need to try a lot harder. It is grotesque to see this drivel still promoted. Sorry, as a friend of a Maciel survivor, I am not objective.
Please take a look at photos of Maciel at this website http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/eng/articulos/categoria_secc.phtml?lc=se-238_ca-886_ci-887
and see how he is praised as a guide for the formation of diocesan formation directors at a seminary in Rome to train priests from all over the world in Maciel's methods. http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/15872
A lot of someones need to try a lot harder. It is grotesque to see this drivel still promoted. Sorry, as a friend of a Maciel survivor, I am not objective.
5.5.2010 | 6:01pm
Michael5000 says:
Interesting to see George Wiegel of all people now suddenly 'get it' about the LC. There were many people, for many years, who complained about Maciel to anyone they could, but no one would listen. In fact, those who complained about Maciel, those who sought help for their abuse and resulting problems, were absolutely vilified by the LC and it's supporters...including Wiegel. This is what you should apologize for, GW.
Now, about the matter of blatant corruption, payoffs to Vatican and Curial officials, by Maciel and his underlings. When will this be investigated? For example, Cardinal Bertone, second in command at the Vatican, is known to have accepted large amounts of money from Maciel. And not coincidentally, he also blocked Ratzinger's investigation into the order. There needs to be a serious investigation of this corruption at the Vatican.
Now, about the matter of blatant corruption, payoffs to Vatican and Curial officials, by Maciel and his underlings. When will this be investigated? For example, Cardinal Bertone, second in command at the Vatican, is known to have accepted large amounts of money from Maciel. And not coincidentally, he also blocked Ratzinger's investigation into the order. There needs to be a serious investigation of this corruption at the Vatican.
5.5.2010 | 7:15pm
oh please says:
Dear Wreckage,
Your comment very clearly illustrated the issues the Church is dealing with in RC. There is this overwhelming theme in your post and many of the active RC folks in blogland, that 'these difficult times' are all about you! Poor you! You are so hurt! Why can't we all just leave you alone?!
Actually, it's ironic because you can't see that in one sense you really are a victim! You have been used, your faith formation and your good intentions were co-opted by an evil psychopath!
And yet, somehow, you still believe it is the rest of us, your fellow believers, your Catholic brethren, outside of LC/RC , who are victimizing you.
I am not even going to go into more detail about how many of the posts reveal such a sickening lack of compassion for the original victims, a lack of a true abhorence of sin and a lack of any ability to sincerely admit any failings.
Your comment very clearly illustrated the issues the Church is dealing with in RC. There is this overwhelming theme in your post and many of the active RC folks in blogland, that 'these difficult times' are all about you! Poor you! You are so hurt! Why can't we all just leave you alone?!
Actually, it's ironic because you can't see that in one sense you really are a victim! You have been used, your faith formation and your good intentions were co-opted by an evil psychopath!
And yet, somehow, you still believe it is the rest of us, your fellow believers, your Catholic brethren, outside of LC/RC , who are victimizing you.
I am not even going to go into more detail about how many of the posts reveal such a sickening lack of compassion for the original victims, a lack of a true abhorence of sin and a lack of any ability to sincerely admit any failings.
5.5.2010 | 7:19pm
Carolyn Disco says:
As part of the penance and reparation for his blindness, Weigel needs to apologize fully to the Maciel survivors who filed the canon case; devote at least one full issue of First Things to their hell for telling the truth Weigel dismissed; sponsor a major banquet for the survivors, Jason Berry and their families, with honorarium and full expenses paid; and invite Mary Ann Glendon and William Bennett to join in the apologies. For starters. Actions, not just words.
Finally, Weigel, ask the Maciel survivors what they need from you to support their healing. The Vatican statement was a generalized, bleached exercise. Here is Juan Vaca’s take: “They don’t say anything about all the harm, about how they treated us like liars,” said Mr. Vaca, a professor of sociology and psychology at Mercy College in Dobbs Ferry, N.Y. “I have my dreams completely shattered.”
Help rescue those dreams.
Finally, Weigel, ask the Maciel survivors what they need from you to support their healing. The Vatican statement was a generalized, bleached exercise. Here is Juan Vaca’s take: “They don’t say anything about all the harm, about how they treated us like liars,” said Mr. Vaca, a professor of sociology and psychology at Mercy College in Dobbs Ferry, N.Y. “I have my dreams completely shattered.”
Help rescue those dreams.
5.5.2010 | 7:44pm
Woody Jones says:
I might sign Mr. Weigel's affidavit when he signs one stating that he has read and agrees fully with "Caritas in Veritate."
5.5.2010 | 7:52pm
Dear JDD,
Yes they were dismissed out of hand - for many years! First Things has been very, very late indeed in taking the accusations against Maciel seriously; this is a matter of ample public record. Now, by the same token, they ought to begin taking accusations against others seriously as well.
Yes they were dismissed out of hand - for many years! First Things has been very, very late indeed in taking the accusations against Maciel seriously; this is a matter of ample public record. Now, by the same token, they ought to begin taking accusations against others seriously as well.
5.5.2010 | 8:14pm
Nancy Reyes says:
Years ago, I met some LC...my impression of them was similar to meeting Jehovah Witnesses or some Mormon missionaries or the Hari Krishnas or of my best friend who got involved with a guru: that of a true believer.
So although members might be pious and do great work, I wonder:
How many of the members need to be deprogrammed?
Slowly dissolve the LC, and spread them to other orthodox groups.Get them some good psychiatric help.
If they are of Christ, they will be the leven in these groups (similar to St Teresa of Avila who "reformed" her first Carmelite convent after being sent back as a punishment).
And if they leave, they leave.
So although members might be pious and do great work, I wonder:
How many of the members need to be deprogrammed?
Slowly dissolve the LC, and spread them to other orthodox groups.Get them some good psychiatric help.
If they are of Christ, they will be the leven in these groups (similar to St Teresa of Avila who "reformed" her first Carmelite convent after being sent back as a punishment).
And if they leave, they leave.
5.5.2010 | 9:13pm
KT says:
Very well written article Mr. Weigel. I was involved in the Familia Apostolate for 4 years, and RC definitely uses this and other apostolates to feed members and money into RC and LC. While I learned a lot through Familia, I understand that it was originally developed outside of RC/LC and was co-opted by them. l have some friends who are active in RC and they can't see the forest for the trees. In my young adulthood I became involved in another cult like group(which I subsequently left), so it was very easy for me to see the writing on the wall when I was pressured to join RC at a St. Ignatian Spiritual Exercises retreat. I would encourage all readers to always ask questions. You don't have a lack of faith if you ask questions, you have good prudential judgement. One should always pray for discernment no matter the situation. A wise Catholic priest once told me to STOP--- Stop, Think, consult Others, Pray.
5.5.2010 | 11:26pm
Wreckage, too says:
I am a member of Regnum Christi, I have a son who is a brother in the Legion and I have sent some of my other children to apostolic schools.
This whole Maciel drama is a nightmare of profound proportion for everyone in Regnum Christi. Those who stay with the Congreagtion and Movement are probably still processing on many levels what it all means for each one personally. The current sense of an experience of being punished individually, that many of us feel is very deep, even for those who are innocent of any of the wrong doing so soundly expressed by the ex-members,-- and some of the members of this Movement and Congregation are innocent. I never shunned anyone, I never molested anyone, I never detracted against anyone, and I never pressured anyone.
I have had to defend my staying with the movement from day one. I have been accused of being a bad mother because I sent my children to their schools (as if I don't know my own children or how to care for them or how to protect them- and that by people who have never even met me.) I have been ostracized because of my enthusiasm for means with which to serve the Church because the stuff I was excited about were those questionable vehicles of Legionary wickedness- the National Catholic Register and Faith and Family magazine.
This idea of some culture of the grand history of the Legion is poppycock in my town, area, and section. The members of the Movement still here and the Legionaries still here are persona non grata, unless our help is needed to accomplish something. There is no pressure to stay with the Movement from within; and from many other corridors in the Church without is an intense and frankly, to coin a term sublty 'abusive' pressure to quit. For those in the ex-arena in need of their pound of flesh, it is being consumed. I wish the people who have been hurt by bad interpersonal experiences- I am not talking about criminal abuses mind you- but interpersonal conflicts and problems, that justice is being meted out on interior levels and revenge is being accomplished- eye for eye, and tooth for tooth, pain for pain. And for some Legionaries it will never end. God is a great equalizer and Truth does prevail. If you have a complaint about the timing, take it up with Him.
The one thing men and women are trying to hold on to in all of this is that it was God who allowed it. He could have ended it at any number of moments and yet many, many, upright, good, and holy people were misled and harmed. George Weigel was one of them. Pope JohnPaul II might have been one of them. I believe in taking my grievances to the top, and I want to know what I am supposed to think when Jesus Himself says you will know the tree by its fruit- and the fruit of Legionary charity and zeal for souls is more than evident around the world. I do not think it is intellectually honest to dispute that. This year, depending on what happens now, more men than have ever been ordained in one year to the Legion were moving along that course to culminate in December. I want an explanation from God. And I think all y'all acting like this is all just some nasty trash we need to take out the back door and set fire to are in error on some levels. Of course, there is a general consensus among some that because of the admissions I have made in the beginning of this response, that I am still just having the "Koolaid hangover".
For those of us who pray, and go to Mass, and go to adoration, and read our Bibles, and our catechisms, and do our daily meditations- those of us doing all of those things and seeking God and trying to follow fast after Him and His will for our lives BUT who still find that to be in staying in this Movement, I do think we deserve some respect and silence from the peanut gallery as to our choices at this point. And I don't think I should have to submit to signing an affidavit as if I cannot be led by the same Holy Spirit that enlightened those who have left the Movement or the Legion. The problem we have is that God is leading prayerful holy people to opposite conclusions, now isn't He? and Oh yes, that does seem like a problem to me, too, believe me.
With all due respect, Mr. Weigel, I would have preferred it if you had worded your presentation here differently, but I am sure you mean well in zeal for what you think is best. I respect your opinion about my immediate future and that of my children, and I thank you for it. And I am glad for this information because I have no idea what might happen from here or any inkling of what ought to happen here. So, I and mine will continue to do what we have learned to do, albeit through the formation we have recieved with the Legionaires, follow and obey the Holy Father.
Where else are we going to go?
This whole Maciel drama is a nightmare of profound proportion for everyone in Regnum Christi. Those who stay with the Congreagtion and Movement are probably still processing on many levels what it all means for each one personally. The current sense of an experience of being punished individually, that many of us feel is very deep, even for those who are innocent of any of the wrong doing so soundly expressed by the ex-members,-- and some of the members of this Movement and Congregation are innocent. I never shunned anyone, I never molested anyone, I never detracted against anyone, and I never pressured anyone.
I have had to defend my staying with the movement from day one. I have been accused of being a bad mother because I sent my children to their schools (as if I don't know my own children or how to care for them or how to protect them- and that by people who have never even met me.) I have been ostracized because of my enthusiasm for means with which to serve the Church because the stuff I was excited about were those questionable vehicles of Legionary wickedness- the National Catholic Register and Faith and Family magazine.
This idea of some culture of the grand history of the Legion is poppycock in my town, area, and section. The members of the Movement still here and the Legionaries still here are persona non grata, unless our help is needed to accomplish something. There is no pressure to stay with the Movement from within; and from many other corridors in the Church without is an intense and frankly, to coin a term sublty 'abusive' pressure to quit. For those in the ex-arena in need of their pound of flesh, it is being consumed. I wish the people who have been hurt by bad interpersonal experiences- I am not talking about criminal abuses mind you- but interpersonal conflicts and problems, that justice is being meted out on interior levels and revenge is being accomplished- eye for eye, and tooth for tooth, pain for pain. And for some Legionaries it will never end. God is a great equalizer and Truth does prevail. If you have a complaint about the timing, take it up with Him.
The one thing men and women are trying to hold on to in all of this is that it was God who allowed it. He could have ended it at any number of moments and yet many, many, upright, good, and holy people were misled and harmed. George Weigel was one of them. Pope JohnPaul II might have been one of them. I believe in taking my grievances to the top, and I want to know what I am supposed to think when Jesus Himself says you will know the tree by its fruit- and the fruit of Legionary charity and zeal for souls is more than evident around the world. I do not think it is intellectually honest to dispute that. This year, depending on what happens now, more men than have ever been ordained in one year to the Legion were moving along that course to culminate in December. I want an explanation from God. And I think all y'all acting like this is all just some nasty trash we need to take out the back door and set fire to are in error on some levels. Of course, there is a general consensus among some that because of the admissions I have made in the beginning of this response, that I am still just having the "Koolaid hangover".
For those of us who pray, and go to Mass, and go to adoration, and read our Bibles, and our catechisms, and do our daily meditations- those of us doing all of those things and seeking God and trying to follow fast after Him and His will for our lives BUT who still find that to be in staying in this Movement, I do think we deserve some respect and silence from the peanut gallery as to our choices at this point. And I don't think I should have to submit to signing an affidavit as if I cannot be led by the same Holy Spirit that enlightened those who have left the Movement or the Legion. The problem we have is that God is leading prayerful holy people to opposite conclusions, now isn't He? and Oh yes, that does seem like a problem to me, too, believe me.
With all due respect, Mr. Weigel, I would have preferred it if you had worded your presentation here differently, but I am sure you mean well in zeal for what you think is best. I respect your opinion about my immediate future and that of my children, and I thank you for it. And I am glad for this information because I have no idea what might happen from here or any inkling of what ought to happen here. So, I and mine will continue to do what we have learned to do, albeit through the formation we have recieved with the Legionaires, follow and obey the Holy Father.
Where else are we going to go?
5.6.2010 | 1:51am
Donald Zelbruk says:
Why can't I find the words "John" or "Paul" anywhere on this page? Is John Paul II still going to be canonized after all this? Will he be the patron saint of enablers?
5.6.2010 | 2:20am
Ikenna says:
Church of the East...
I don't know if you have a problem with St. Josemaria but if the evidence you can come up with is from that book then I ask you to please go and check easily available authentic sources.
To differentiate St. Josemaria unlike Marciel has been canonized and the process of canonization is such painstaking scrutiny of the life of a person that even a deceiver like the Devil him self will find difficult to filter through. If we can doubt the sanctity of someone of St.Josemaria then we can call to question that of any saint all the way to St. Stephen. Also canonization is an act carried out ex Cathedra with all the that statement implies concern the doctrine of the Papal Infallibility and the teaching of Christ to that effect.
I don't know if you have a problem with St. Josemaria but if the evidence you can come up with is from that book then I ask you to please go and check easily available authentic sources.
To differentiate St. Josemaria unlike Marciel has been canonized and the process of canonization is such painstaking scrutiny of the life of a person that even a deceiver like the Devil him self will find difficult to filter through. If we can doubt the sanctity of someone of St.Josemaria then we can call to question that of any saint all the way to St. Stephen. Also canonization is an act carried out ex Cathedra with all the that statement implies concern the doctrine of the Papal Infallibility and the teaching of Christ to that effect.
5.6.2010 | 4:45am
Martin says:
Wasn't Maciel a great friend of Pope John Paul II? JP2 was Ratzinger's boss and the investigation of Maciel was held up until JP2 died and Benedict XVI went after Maciel right away. I am really starting to wonder about JP2. He also appointed a lot of bishops and others who ended up being sexual perverts. A lot of the abuse went on under his watch. If this was a civil government, people would be demanding a public enquiry. the Vatican should of its own initiative hold a public enquiry to start rooting out ALL the corruption. Let the chips fall where they may. The truth will set us free. In the meantime, just shut LC/RC down. Right now. Nothing that is from God will be lost by doing this.
5.6.2010 | 6:36am
Fr. John Noel says:
We in the Irish Church are in a dark place because of denial and cover up regarding child sexual abuse for many years. Secrecy and the protection of the Institutional Church seems to have been the prime reason for what happened. A complete clear out of anyone in positions of leadership is but one small step in the healing process. I reckon the same must now be done as a start in LC/RC.
While roundly condemning the duplicitous existence of Maciel we must absolutely be sensitive in dealing with his victims but also not abandon those misguided people who perhaps fell prey to his charism and toughness and turned a blind eye. They too are victims.
Prayer and a lengthy period of discernment will have to be entered into by all concerned. It would be a pity if all the good within LC/RC were to be forgotten, instead it should be identified and then nurtured and protected. May the Holy Spirit guide all involved in this onerous task.
While roundly condemning the duplicitous existence of Maciel we must absolutely be sensitive in dealing with his victims but also not abandon those misguided people who perhaps fell prey to his charism and toughness and turned a blind eye. They too are victims.
Prayer and a lengthy period of discernment will have to be entered into by all concerned. It would be a pity if all the good within LC/RC were to be forgotten, instead it should be identified and then nurtured and protected. May the Holy Spirit guide all involved in this onerous task.
5.6.2010 | 6:51am
Correction says:
I wanted to point from the Vatican statement that: "The Holy Father will send a visitator to the consecrated members of the "Regnum Christi" Movement, who have insistently requested this." and not to Regnum Christi members as a whole as Mr. Weigel's article seems to imply.
5.6.2010 | 7:01am
MAUK says:
Wreckage, too;
It is really painful to hear how you guys are suffering.......Im in another movement in the Church so I can relate to what you say and your experince.......you are our brothers and sisters............I dont know much, but I do know God will be faithful to you and your family. My heart goes out to you and I'lll keep you all in our prayers.
It is really painful to hear how you guys are suffering.......Im in another movement in the Church so I can relate to what you say and your experince.......you are our brothers and sisters............I dont know much, but I do know God will be faithful to you and your family. My heart goes out to you and I'lll keep you all in our prayers.
5.6.2010 | 7:01am
Suzanne says:
Mr Weigel,
You seem to believe you have this all figured out while the majority of faithful Legionaries and RC members themselves live in a state of perplexity with regard to the revelations of the founder. However, as an RC member I say truthfully that the formation of my heart assisted by the Legion over the many years has always been on Christ and only Christ. Therfore the winds blow, the earth shakes, the rains pound, the waves roar, yet my resolve does not falther because my heart has always been attached to the Rock and not the founder. There are very many members in the service of Christ whose resolve has not collapsed. The founder was always the first one to point to Christ, hence the perplexity, but Christ-centeredness is the main spirituality of the Movement. My spiritual formation is in Christ and my call was from Christ (I heard the call to this lay vocation even before I knew what it was)
So you see, personally I will continue with my call from Christ, the Holy Father in his statement told me to do so and reasurred me of its authenticity. You have to understand Mr. Weigel that trust in God wholeheartedly, like a child, and obedience to the direction of the Holy Father is the most critical element here and that includes those who continue to speak ill of the whole of the work of the Legion and RC with sweeping judgements and the presumption they understand everything that has transpired. Deceit hangs like a thick black fog in these dark times and we all must keep our armor strong through the sacraments and the practice of faith, hope, love and unity. You are forgetting that the Lord is still in our midst and will intervene and bring us through the tempest, after the test. Read Sirach 2. My hope and faith and trust is in the Lord and with all due respect for you and your writing, that I have so applauded in the past, your focus must also be on trust in God to bring order and peace to confusion and perplexity.
You seem to believe you have this all figured out while the majority of faithful Legionaries and RC members themselves live in a state of perplexity with regard to the revelations of the founder. However, as an RC member I say truthfully that the formation of my heart assisted by the Legion over the many years has always been on Christ and only Christ. Therfore the winds blow, the earth shakes, the rains pound, the waves roar, yet my resolve does not falther because my heart has always been attached to the Rock and not the founder. There are very many members in the service of Christ whose resolve has not collapsed. The founder was always the first one to point to Christ, hence the perplexity, but Christ-centeredness is the main spirituality of the Movement. My spiritual formation is in Christ and my call was from Christ (I heard the call to this lay vocation even before I knew what it was)
So you see, personally I will continue with my call from Christ, the Holy Father in his statement told me to do so and reasurred me of its authenticity. You have to understand Mr. Weigel that trust in God wholeheartedly, like a child, and obedience to the direction of the Holy Father is the most critical element here and that includes those who continue to speak ill of the whole of the work of the Legion and RC with sweeping judgements and the presumption they understand everything that has transpired. Deceit hangs like a thick black fog in these dark times and we all must keep our armor strong through the sacraments and the practice of faith, hope, love and unity. You are forgetting that the Lord is still in our midst and will intervene and bring us through the tempest, after the test. Read Sirach 2. My hope and faith and trust is in the Lord and with all due respect for you and your writing, that I have so applauded in the past, your focus must also be on trust in God to bring order and peace to confusion and perplexity.
5.6.2010 | 7:02am
Naider says:
Bla, bla, bla...
I don't really know what good comes out of all the things said... The Church has been around for XX centuries and will continue to be here as a lighthouse for all who want to know Christ.
The best thing to do is wait to see what the Church asks of the Legionaries and Regnum Christi members.
George is not the oracle of all truths...
I don't really know what good comes out of all the things said... The Church has been around for XX centuries and will continue to be here as a lighthouse for all who want to know Christ.
The best thing to do is wait to see what the Church asks of the Legionaries and Regnum Christi members.
George is not the oracle of all truths...
5.6.2010 | 7:06am
Dear Ikenna,
Thank you for your response. I am sorry, but I do not trust the Church's canonization process. It is well-known that it was greatly watered down during the pontificate of John Paul II - sufficiently so, it seems, that an exercise in sophisticated public relations is now able to circumvent all the safeguards that traditionally were attached to the canonization process. This is what I believe happened in the Escriva case. The "authentic" sources of which you speak are something that I would consider merely "authorized" sources (by OPus Dei, that is) - but it is precisely reliable UNauthorized sources that are absolutely necessary as a source of checks and balances in the canonization process.
I also have grave doubts about many of the saints from the early Church - Jerome and Damasus, for example, to mention just two off the top of my head whose known behavior strikes me as anything but saintly. I do think that the canonization process was reasonably reliable in the several centuries before John Paul's pontificate.
Thank you for your response. I am sorry, but I do not trust the Church's canonization process. It is well-known that it was greatly watered down during the pontificate of John Paul II - sufficiently so, it seems, that an exercise in sophisticated public relations is now able to circumvent all the safeguards that traditionally were attached to the canonization process. This is what I believe happened in the Escriva case. The "authentic" sources of which you speak are something that I would consider merely "authorized" sources (by OPus Dei, that is) - but it is precisely reliable UNauthorized sources that are absolutely necessary as a source of checks and balances in the canonization process.
I also have grave doubts about many of the saints from the early Church - Jerome and Damasus, for example, to mention just two off the top of my head whose known behavior strikes me as anything but saintly. I do think that the canonization process was reasonably reliable in the several centuries before John Paul's pontificate.
5.6.2010 | 7:13am
anonymous says:
Another Wreckage,
Where else can you go? For one thing the Catholic Church. It is no shame to belong to the Plain old Catholic Chruch either, in spite of all her defects, we do know something about Her Founder. The Problem for you that are still in, is you have really believed you are called to something "special" outside of the ordianary Catholic's road. Why is that? Do you know that the one thing that Satan enjoys doing the most is taking something good and twisting it, perverting it in a way that is subtle and inisideous. The good fruit is not the Legion's it is the Church's. It is not because God willed it that way, any Good Fruit that is truly good will last, in spite of the evil twisting that Satan tries to do with it. Do you call good fruit also the ruined lives, the traumatized souls, the lies and deception perpetrated by the Legion higher-ups for so many years?
You have a chance to end the cycle of lies and abuse for your children. You have full knowledge now-the choice is yours.
Where else can you go? For one thing the Catholic Church. It is no shame to belong to the Plain old Catholic Chruch either, in spite of all her defects, we do know something about Her Founder. The Problem for you that are still in, is you have really believed you are called to something "special" outside of the ordianary Catholic's road. Why is that? Do you know that the one thing that Satan enjoys doing the most is taking something good and twisting it, perverting it in a way that is subtle and inisideous. The good fruit is not the Legion's it is the Church's. It is not because God willed it that way, any Good Fruit that is truly good will last, in spite of the evil twisting that Satan tries to do with it. Do you call good fruit also the ruined lives, the traumatized souls, the lies and deception perpetrated by the Legion higher-ups for so many years?
You have a chance to end the cycle of lies and abuse for your children. You have full knowledge now-the choice is yours.
5.6.2010 | 7:41am
Héctor says:
There is no denying the crimes of Marcial Maciel, but can not be expected to erase all the good work they do hundreds of Legionnaires around the world. They are not to blame for the crimes of the founder
5.6.2010 | 8:02am
Roman Catholic says:
Dear Church of the East: Your postings illustrate an odd asymmetry I've often noticed: While Catholics go about their business and harbor no animus, or especial notice, of the Eastern Orthodox, many Eastern Orthodox spend a lot of time and energy attacking Roman Catholicism and especially the papacy. The philosopher Vladimir Solovyov pointed out that at the deepest roots of its identifty, Eastern Orthodoxy is anti-Catholic. Why is that? Yes, the western Church has many historical sins and errors to atone for, but such is the case with the Eastern Church. And your innuendo-mongering about Opus Dei, based apparently on dubious sources, is not attractive. John Allen of the National Catholic Reporter, who is a liberal, did a full investigative book on Opus Dei which you ought to consult before making ugly hints and accusationsl.
5.6.2010 | 8:07am
Earl says:
My only comment to Mr. Wiegel's piece is his characterization of RC members as a group of mindless automatons that need to sign some sort of affidavit affirming we understand the scope and nature of Maciel's actions. I find that particularly offensive.
I am a highly educated, successful businessman and I am more than capable of understanding the nature and implication of his actions and am particularly grieved at the damage he has caused by his actions. I also know a great many RC members and they are not dazed cultists as Mr. Wiegel and many of the poster's imply. In fact they are some of the most faithful members of the Catholic Church, they are very active in a positive way in their parishes and they are faithful and supportive of their Bishop, the Holy Father and the Magesterium. In short, they are ideal Catholics that are trying to live their baptismal promises and have found their vocation to RC to be a means for them to do so.
So I will not sign any such affidavit and would be greatly offended if I am ever asked to do such a thing. When I incorporated into RC my commitment was to Christ and his Church. If the Church through the Holy Father and the Holy See decides to disband or significantly alter the Legion and RC I will accept that decision as a faithful Catholic would. I wonder whether many of the detractors and Mr. Wiegel will do likewise if the decision is otherwise?
I am a highly educated, successful businessman and I am more than capable of understanding the nature and implication of his actions and am particularly grieved at the damage he has caused by his actions. I also know a great many RC members and they are not dazed cultists as Mr. Wiegel and many of the poster's imply. In fact they are some of the most faithful members of the Catholic Church, they are very active in a positive way in their parishes and they are faithful and supportive of their Bishop, the Holy Father and the Magesterium. In short, they are ideal Catholics that are trying to live their baptismal promises and have found their vocation to RC to be a means for them to do so.
So I will not sign any such affidavit and would be greatly offended if I am ever asked to do such a thing. When I incorporated into RC my commitment was to Christ and his Church. If the Church through the Holy Father and the Holy See decides to disband or significantly alter the Legion and RC I will accept that decision as a faithful Catholic would. I wonder whether many of the detractors and Mr. Wiegel will do likewise if the decision is otherwise?
5.6.2010 | 8:27am
kalamation says:
The grace made available from a grand betrayal begins unnoticed and becomes unstoppable.
5.6.2010 | 9:09am
Paul Petrous says:
Mr. Weigel:
How do you think about this “I certify that I have personally read and understood the account of the war crimes of the American people in Japan, Vietnam, Irak and Afghanistan" l that has been provided by the United Nations.”
Such a process would make it difficult, if not impossible, for any form of the grand narrative to be reconstructed?
Thanks for your time to think this. Please make a Holy hour in front of our Lord with this short reading of yesterday´s Gospel (the day you published this statment):
Acts 15:1-6.
Some who had come down from Judea were instructing the brothers, "Unless
you are circumcised according to the Mosaic practice, you cannot be saved."
My prayers for you and for your family
Paul Petrous
How do you think about this “I certify that I have personally read and understood the account of the war crimes of the American people in Japan, Vietnam, Irak and Afghanistan" l that has been provided by the United Nations.”
Such a process would make it difficult, if not impossible, for any form of the grand narrative to be reconstructed?
Thanks for your time to think this. Please make a Holy hour in front of our Lord with this short reading of yesterday´s Gospel (the day you published this statment):
Acts 15:1-6.
Some who had come down from Judea were instructing the brothers, "Unless
you are circumcised according to the Mosaic practice, you cannot be saved."
My prayers for you and for your family
Paul Petrous
5.6.2010 | 9:16am
oh please says:
Wreckage too wrote: "So, I and mine will continue to do what we have learned to do, albeit through the formation we have recieved with the Legionaires, follow and obey the Holy Father."
Ah, the formation. Which was masterminded and constructed out of the writings and plagiarisms of a man 'devoid of religious sentiment.' Yes, I can now see why you love RC so much and can't imagine living out a faithful Catholic lay vocation apart from it.
Look, from where I stand it seems that it is the very formation you have recieved that is keeping you spiritually chained to a completely un-necessary (in regards to your salvation~no matter what you've been told) alligiance to a group founded by a MONSTER!
geesh.
I wish someone could explain to me why it is so difficult for RC members to see what the rest of us see? Looking at this from the outside it just seems so completely obvious. Why is it such a big deal to you to stay affiliated? The second I heard about the 'revelations regarding the founder' I would be out the door and rushing distance myself as far as possible from such an evil man and anything he touched.
Reading about all the RC/LC drama I am constantly being reminded of the old "The Emperor Has No Clothes' story. Only the RC people seem to be like some nutty townspeople who, even after the child has clearly stated the truth, continue to believe the Emperor is fully dressed! Or worse, chatter about how having no clothes is really no big deal and we should all accept the Emperor as he is and maybe even continue to pretend that he really is fully dressed because it is more charitable to the poor guy (and to them for not being 'able to see' the that he was naked all along).
I am just dumbfounded by this whole thing. The LC/RC and their families are in my prayers, as well as all of the victims of this scandal, physical and spiritual.
Ah, the formation. Which was masterminded and constructed out of the writings and plagiarisms of a man 'devoid of religious sentiment.' Yes, I can now see why you love RC so much and can't imagine living out a faithful Catholic lay vocation apart from it.
Look, from where I stand it seems that it is the very formation you have recieved that is keeping you spiritually chained to a completely un-necessary (in regards to your salvation~no matter what you've been told) alligiance to a group founded by a MONSTER!
geesh.
I wish someone could explain to me why it is so difficult for RC members to see what the rest of us see? Looking at this from the outside it just seems so completely obvious. Why is it such a big deal to you to stay affiliated? The second I heard about the 'revelations regarding the founder' I would be out the door and rushing distance myself as far as possible from such an evil man and anything he touched.
Reading about all the RC/LC drama I am constantly being reminded of the old "The Emperor Has No Clothes' story. Only the RC people seem to be like some nutty townspeople who, even after the child has clearly stated the truth, continue to believe the Emperor is fully dressed! Or worse, chatter about how having no clothes is really no big deal and we should all accept the Emperor as he is and maybe even continue to pretend that he really is fully dressed because it is more charitable to the poor guy (and to them for not being 'able to see' the that he was naked all along).
I am just dumbfounded by this whole thing. The LC/RC and their families are in my prayers, as well as all of the victims of this scandal, physical and spiritual.
5.6.2010 | 9:48am
SQ says:
What all LC/RC need to know:
In 1997 the victims spoke.
In 2006 the Vatican spoke. Maciel was convicted and sentenced to penance for the rest of his life.
In 2009 and then 2010 the Legion spoke. They finally realized the Vatican was right.
In 2010 the Vatican again spoke, this time assuring us that there is something very, very wrong with the LC. Can I repeat - VERY wrong.
Do we have to wait until 2014 before they realize that Maciel's poison spilled to each and every LC and RC?
Would you please realize that this isn't even about Maciel anymore? It's about formation, recruiting, and methodology that is BAD.
Cling to Christ Alone! Not to LC/RC.
There is no charity without truth.
In 1997 the victims spoke.
In 2006 the Vatican spoke. Maciel was convicted and sentenced to penance for the rest of his life.
In 2009 and then 2010 the Legion spoke. They finally realized the Vatican was right.
In 2010 the Vatican again spoke, this time assuring us that there is something very, very wrong with the LC. Can I repeat - VERY wrong.
Do we have to wait until 2014 before they realize that Maciel's poison spilled to each and every LC and RC?
Would you please realize that this isn't even about Maciel anymore? It's about formation, recruiting, and methodology that is BAD.
Cling to Christ Alone! Not to LC/RC.
There is no charity without truth.
5.6.2010 | 10:09am
Dear Roman Catholic,
Thanks for your note. Just to clarify, I write from the standpoint of "Nestorianism," not Eastern Orthodoxy. But that is a matter of secondary relevance to the points you raise.
I will not deny that I and many other opponents of the papacy may have a personal animus against it, but that issue is neither here nor there. The critical question is whether papal doctrine is authentic Christianity or not. I believe it is demonstrably not, and that many of the evils of the sort being discussed here are in significant measure outgrowths of the lack of acknowledgement of that basic error. A power and authority that were not willed by Christ in the first place will inevitably be egregiously abused and misused.
As for Opus Dei, I see no reason to discount the merit of the sources I have previously cited on the matter, regardless of what John Allen may or may not have written. There is a lot about Opus Dei and its founder that does not pass the smell test, and that is a judgment I have arrived at not only on the basis of researching published writings on the matter (some of which I cited previously), but also on the basis of a significant amount of anecdotal evidence that has come to my attention over the years.
As for your assertion that raising these issues is not attractive, I have a question for you in response: If I had suggested to you five years ago on this blog or elsewhere that Maciel might be guilty of grave sexual crimes, would you have responded then that such accusations are not attractive? Probably so. But it would also have turned out that I was correct.
The reason that the ugly truth about all these things must be known is because only if they are fully known can the issue of the Catholic Church's compromised witness to Christ be fully separated from the inherent splendor of Christ and his promises themselves. That cannot happen as long as the false pride of clericalism and the false doctrines of papal authority substantially guide the Catholic Church's activities.
Thanks for your note. Just to clarify, I write from the standpoint of "Nestorianism," not Eastern Orthodoxy. But that is a matter of secondary relevance to the points you raise.
I will not deny that I and many other opponents of the papacy may have a personal animus against it, but that issue is neither here nor there. The critical question is whether papal doctrine is authentic Christianity or not. I believe it is demonstrably not, and that many of the evils of the sort being discussed here are in significant measure outgrowths of the lack of acknowledgement of that basic error. A power and authority that were not willed by Christ in the first place will inevitably be egregiously abused and misused.
As for Opus Dei, I see no reason to discount the merit of the sources I have previously cited on the matter, regardless of what John Allen may or may not have written. There is a lot about Opus Dei and its founder that does not pass the smell test, and that is a judgment I have arrived at not only on the basis of researching published writings on the matter (some of which I cited previously), but also on the basis of a significant amount of anecdotal evidence that has come to my attention over the years.
As for your assertion that raising these issues is not attractive, I have a question for you in response: If I had suggested to you five years ago on this blog or elsewhere that Maciel might be guilty of grave sexual crimes, would you have responded then that such accusations are not attractive? Probably so. But it would also have turned out that I was correct.
The reason that the ugly truth about all these things must be known is because only if they are fully known can the issue of the Catholic Church's compromised witness to Christ be fully separated from the inherent splendor of Christ and his promises themselves. That cannot happen as long as the false pride of clericalism and the false doctrines of papal authority substantially guide the Catholic Church's activities.
5.6.2010 | 10:17am
deirdre says:
Church of the East-- It's a bit amusing that someone from a church that honors CONSTANTINE as a saint has the nerve to complain about poor St. Jerome!
If yopu're going to use the some of his behavior (reading pagan authors and being a bit cranky from time to time?) seems inconsistant with sanctity attack, then how do you explain the apostles? They WALKED WITH CHRIST and still wanted to call down thunder upon unbelievers and rude people! :)
If yopu're going to use the some of his behavior (reading pagan authors and being a bit cranky from time to time?) seems inconsistant with sanctity attack, then how do you explain the apostles? They WALKED WITH CHRIST and still wanted to call down thunder upon unbelievers and rude people! :)
5.6.2010 | 10:31am
Dear Deirdre,
Thanks for your note. The Nestorian Church does not venerate Constantine; it is the Greek Orthodox Church that does so (the other autocephalous Churches of Orthodoxy, by and large, do not; it is a strictly local veneration). And it does so mistakenly, in my view. Yes, many claims to sainthood in early Christianity are suspect - both in the East and in the West.
As far as I know, however, the Greek Orthodox Church does not claim infallibility for their veneration of Constantine. Thus, a Greek Orthodox Christian can repudiate this veneration with relatively little difficult. Catholics face a more serious problem in this regard, since in the case of the Catholic Church questionable instances of formal canonization carry the weight of infallibility. This is a big part of the reason, I think, why it is very difficult for many on this blog to countenance even the possiblity that Escriva might in fact have been something substantially less than a saint.
Thanks for your note. The Nestorian Church does not venerate Constantine; it is the Greek Orthodox Church that does so (the other autocephalous Churches of Orthodoxy, by and large, do not; it is a strictly local veneration). And it does so mistakenly, in my view. Yes, many claims to sainthood in early Christianity are suspect - both in the East and in the West.
As far as I know, however, the Greek Orthodox Church does not claim infallibility for their veneration of Constantine. Thus, a Greek Orthodox Christian can repudiate this veneration with relatively little difficult. Catholics face a more serious problem in this regard, since in the case of the Catholic Church questionable instances of formal canonization carry the weight of infallibility. This is a big part of the reason, I think, why it is very difficult for many on this blog to countenance even the possiblity that Escriva might in fact have been something substantially less than a saint.
5.6.2010 | 11:00am
SQ says:
I just want to note to present RC that I left RC a year ago.
You ask where can we go?
Go to your parish. Bring your orthodoxy there. Bring your charity there. See if the souls there can teach you anything - you may be surprised. Start a true Bible Study - one that isn't for recruiting to RC. Start a group that studies the documents of the Church - one that doesn't recruit to the Maciel Machine. You will find freedom because you will learn that serving the Church is different from serving RC. To be truly generous and self-giving is to serve your parish. If you want a charism look to St. Francis. Look to St. Benedict. Until the LC priests tell the RC, "Go out and serve your Parish," without any self-serving desires to build RC and recruit for LC, there will never be reform.
Everything that you have been given through RC has always been in the Church. Go to Christ. Serve Him in your Parish. That is where we are meant to be. That is where you will find the Love and Mercy you need right now. Our parish schools are crumbling. Build them. Love your pastor.
God Bless.
You ask where can we go?
Go to your parish. Bring your orthodoxy there. Bring your charity there. See if the souls there can teach you anything - you may be surprised. Start a true Bible Study - one that isn't for recruiting to RC. Start a group that studies the documents of the Church - one that doesn't recruit to the Maciel Machine. You will find freedom because you will learn that serving the Church is different from serving RC. To be truly generous and self-giving is to serve your parish. If you want a charism look to St. Francis. Look to St. Benedict. Until the LC priests tell the RC, "Go out and serve your Parish," without any self-serving desires to build RC and recruit for LC, there will never be reform.
Everything that you have been given through RC has always been in the Church. Go to Christ. Serve Him in your Parish. That is where we are meant to be. That is where you will find the Love and Mercy you need right now. Our parish schools are crumbling. Build them. Love your pastor.
God Bless.
5.6.2010 | 11:21am
Ted Zettel says:
George,
Your recommendation that the Legion of Christ should be shut down to break with the misdeeds of their founder must be based on ignorance of the great good that is being accomplished by thousands of men and women who have devoted their lives to serving Christ. You misrepresent the Pope's statement by taking phrases out of context. Why not give your readers the whole thing so that they can receive the Pope's much more balanced and wise conclusions? You want them to have yours instead. I am disappointed. You are at odds with the five visitators and with the Pope. Personally, I believe that we are witnessing something in the life of Fr. Maciel that we are hesitant to face squarely; the profound mystery of great virtue and terrible deceipt coexisting simultaneously in one person. As one who has tried for over 35 years to follow Christ's teaching and grow in holiness with the help of the Holy Spirit, I am personally in touch with this mysterious dichotemy IN MYSELF! I find in the very sad tale of Fr. Maciel, a call to repentance and prayer. Members of the Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi have suffered enough.
Your recommendation that the Legion of Christ should be shut down to break with the misdeeds of their founder must be based on ignorance of the great good that is being accomplished by thousands of men and women who have devoted their lives to serving Christ. You misrepresent the Pope's statement by taking phrases out of context. Why not give your readers the whole thing so that they can receive the Pope's much more balanced and wise conclusions? You want them to have yours instead. I am disappointed. You are at odds with the five visitators and with the Pope. Personally, I believe that we are witnessing something in the life of Fr. Maciel that we are hesitant to face squarely; the profound mystery of great virtue and terrible deceipt coexisting simultaneously in one person. As one who has tried for over 35 years to follow Christ's teaching and grow in holiness with the help of the Holy Spirit, I am personally in touch with this mysterious dichotemy IN MYSELF! I find in the very sad tale of Fr. Maciel, a call to repentance and prayer. Members of the Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi have suffered enough.
5.6.2010 | 12:03pm
Lauretta says:
As someone who has been following this for some time, as well as having friends and extended family involved with the group, I would like to comment on one point in this article.
It was stated that some of the Legionaries are "holy". I find it difficult to assign that description to any person or group that behave the way in which they do because they are coerced to behave that way. It seems to me that freedom is an essential component for anything or anyone to be holy. If you pray because you are forced to do it, appear happy because you are told you have to put on a pleasant face to outsiders no matter what, etc. etc., I see no holiness in that.
I have heard from too many in this group about the excessive control and manipulation to believe that it is not a major issue. Any perceived holiness is just that, merely a perception.
It was stated that some of the Legionaries are "holy". I find it difficult to assign that description to any person or group that behave the way in which they do because they are coerced to behave that way. It seems to me that freedom is an essential component for anything or anyone to be holy. If you pray because you are forced to do it, appear happy because you are told you have to put on a pleasant face to outsiders no matter what, etc. etc., I see no holiness in that.
I have heard from too many in this group about the excessive control and manipulation to believe that it is not a major issue. Any perceived holiness is just that, merely a perception.
5.6.2010 | 12:09pm
Earl says:
Dear oh please:
With all due respect I think we very clearly see what was wrought by Maciel and his abhorrent behavior. Why can't you see all the good acts and the dedicated service of the LC priests and members of RC for the Church? I think that is what gives us a much broader and more balanced perspective about this entire situation. You apparently only see the negative while we see both the negative and the positive because we know what has happened in our lives. Each individual has to decide intellectually and emotionally how they will react. If all you have experienced is negative then I can understand and accept your position despite the fact that I disagree with your characterization of people you don't know and how you think we should react. I can only tell you that my experience with dozens of LC priests and hundreds, if not thousands of RC members is diametrically opposed to your characterization. Maybe I have been lucky but I don't think so.
With all due respect I think we very clearly see what was wrought by Maciel and his abhorrent behavior. Why can't you see all the good acts and the dedicated service of the LC priests and members of RC for the Church? I think that is what gives us a much broader and more balanced perspective about this entire situation. You apparently only see the negative while we see both the negative and the positive because we know what has happened in our lives. Each individual has to decide intellectually and emotionally how they will react. If all you have experienced is negative then I can understand and accept your position despite the fact that I disagree with your characterization of people you don't know and how you think we should react. I can only tell you that my experience with dozens of LC priests and hundreds, if not thousands of RC members is diametrically opposed to your characterization. Maybe I have been lucky but I don't think so.
5.6.2010 | 12:20pm
Earl says:
Dear Lauretta: I have met and worked closely with dozens of LC priests over many years and my experience is just the opposite of what you describe. I would not presume to know whether someone's external holiness is genuine or not. If you recall the writings of Mother Teresa and her spiritual battles you will see that despite the internal war and desolation she was indeed in my view a very holy person. Was her external holiness invalid because she felt abandoned by God? I don't think so and doubt you do either. My point is not that LC priests are Mother Teresa but that we cannot know what is in someone's heart and your characterization of LC priests assumes that you do. And again, I have many, many years of direct contact and interaction with LC priest and Regnum Christi and never experienced any of what you describe.
5.6.2010 | 12:20pm
Paul Beriault says:
I am an ex Legionary who has nothing but gratitude for everything that God has done in me through the Legion. This situation saddens me greatly, not because I am now finding out that some of my enemies were actually correct in some things, but because of all the good works and good people that live, move and have their being in the Church through the Legion and because of her. And because I know that you cannot erase the spirit of the founder without erasing part of the foundation. His writings, none of which show any trace whatsoever, of his impurity are inspirational and do a great job of forming ones conscience: will all these be lost too. Because I helped in transcribing and formatting many of his writings I had access to even more writings then most. What a shame. I don't know what to say other than, I will pray for and support all my brothers in Christ, and that I wish Fr. Marciel had not fallen in this way.
PS I think you shouldn't comment if you are to afraid to leave you real name.
PS I think you shouldn't comment if you are to afraid to leave you real name.
5.6.2010 | 12:29pm
Robertlifelongcatholic says:
One would seriously doubt that Jesus Christ or his disciples would ever have conceived, condoned or associated His teachings with, legionaries, charismas or grand narratives. This is more in line with leftist socialist and fascist terms by demagogues and the Vatican turned a blind eye as long as the numbers and dollars kept rolling in. If the pope can't see the association of his Nazi Germany and Maciel's Legionaries of Chist then the Church as we once knew it is lost.
5.6.2010 | 12:34pm
Robberson says:
All this "back and forth" is healthy I'm sure but a bit self-absorbed and self-limiting. You and I are not addressing the world-wide influence of the LC/RC via the internet. What are we going to do about their influence upon to the millions who are seeking Christ and His Church by simply searching the internet for "catholic information"?
Google "catholic information" yourself and guess what? You'll see the following (or I did) on the first page.
1) Catholic.net (a LC/RC site}, 2) cin.org (Catholic Information Network-Msgr. Luigi Giussani who is related to zenit an LC group, 3) zenit.org (a LC/RC group), 4) forum.com (check out many of their recommended web-sites that are tied to LC), 5) catholic.org (no information at all about their owners but is a site that sells, sells and sells), 6) ncregister.com (National Catholic Register a LC/RC group).
Additionally, this cancer is not only found on individual web-sites but also within the media providers i.e.Circle Media-http://www.circlemedia.com/ look under "profile-affiliations" and they list only two:
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/
http://www.regnumchristi.org
There should be no need for me to list all the rest of the LC/RC sites and/or links to them but there are so many more.
To me this is really frightening!! Rome can go on and on about all this mess but all they can do is clean from the "top down". The LC/RC internet INFESTATION needs to be cleaned from the "bottom up" quickly. Every single day matters as there are thousands of "hits" on these dangerous sites and related links by persons seeking Christ and His Church.
Rome needs to do an immediate thorough analysis of the LC/RC internet domination/cancer and then quickly inform our Church and the "seeking" public to "beware".
Google "catholic information" yourself and guess what? You'll see the following (or I did) on the first page.
1) Catholic.net (a LC/RC site}, 2) cin.org (Catholic Information Network-Msgr. Luigi Giussani who is related to zenit an LC group, 3) zenit.org (a LC/RC group), 4) forum.com (check out many of their recommended web-sites that are tied to LC), 5) catholic.org (no information at all about their owners but is a site that sells, sells and sells), 6) ncregister.com (National Catholic Register a LC/RC group).
Additionally, this cancer is not only found on individual web-sites but also within the media providers i.e.Circle Media-http://www.circlemedia.com/ look under "profile-affiliations" and they list only two:
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/
http://www.regnumchristi.org
There should be no need for me to list all the rest of the LC/RC sites and/or links to them but there are so many more.
To me this is really frightening!! Rome can go on and on about all this mess but all they can do is clean from the "top down". The LC/RC internet INFESTATION needs to be cleaned from the "bottom up" quickly. Every single day matters as there are thousands of "hits" on these dangerous sites and related links by persons seeking Christ and His Church.
Rome needs to do an immediate thorough analysis of the LC/RC internet domination/cancer and then quickly inform our Church and the "seeking" public to "beware".
5.6.2010 | 12:52pm
Earl Scott says:
Dear Paul: Good point about using your name. I was actually just being lazy. :-) Thanks for your witness. I hope we can meet some day as I am sure we have many friends in common. God bless!
5.6.2010 | 1:06pm
Earl Scott says:
Dear SQ: Thanks for your advice but I never left my parish, Diocese or the Catholic Church when I became a member of RC. Both my wife and I are very active participants in parish life, much more so than the vast majority of parishioners. We are on a first name basis with all the priests, my wife leads the Sacristans, I ran a youth group for boys and young men for the parish, we tithe and we actively participate and support many parish activities. And I can say with total certainty that the other RC members that are in our parish are likewise involved as are other RC members in other parishes. In fact, our involvement and dedication to our parish increased significantly directly as a result of our RC vocation. If you ever get to Atlanta during Archbishop Gregory's Eucharistic Congress (first weekend in June) ask every volunteer you run into and you will find many of them are members of Regnum Christi. All the RC apostolates are at the service of the Church. This is a common misconception that we somehow disappear from the parish when in fact the exact opposite is true.
5.6.2010 | 1:54pm
Juan C. Marrero says:
Even great villains build bridges and roads. Marcial Maciel is one of the most devious and destructive figures of 20th century Catholicism. Enough about how he was a flawed instrument of the Lord. He was a crafty tool of the devil. Nothing of his legacy should stand. Show compassion to the victims--and all members of the LC and RC are vicitms, to one extent or another, of this Founder of Lies. Church reform begins with the dissolution of the LC. No reincarnated version of this criminally-led enterprise should survive. But the LC should be studied as an example of how flattery, bribes and lies can tarnish even the most holy.
5.6.2010 | 3:37pm
Lauretta says:
Earl,
I think you misunderstand my comments. What I mean is that freedom is essential for virtue to truly exist. John Paul II was quite adamant about that. One has to be free to choose to do good. If the option to do otherwise is not present, there is little virtue in a good act.
Also, I would like to know what good this group has done for the Church as a whole. Yes, individuals do good things, but what was the motive behind the good things? Were RE programs done because it was what was best for the children and the parish or were they done in order to recruit more people to belong to Legion/Regnum?
Is Pure Fashion done because it is good for the girls or because it brings in a lot of money and can again recruit people to join to give money to the group, etc. etc. etc.?
What has been developed by this group and what has merely been taken over by them to use for their own purposes? For example, Familia. This program is a direct recruiting tool to draw others to join Regnum using the beautiful teachings of the Church as bait. This program was stolen, literally, from the couple who developed it.
Another thing that is frustrating is when people say that they have not experienced x, y, or z in this group. It really doesn't matter if that is what your experience was if a hundred other people are telling that is really what is happening. Seminarians were sexually abused whether or not you personally had that experience and it would be very nice if people would stop calling the victims liars.
Any group this small that has $30 billion is a group that I would question the methods and motives of their operation.
I think you misunderstand my comments. What I mean is that freedom is essential for virtue to truly exist. John Paul II was quite adamant about that. One has to be free to choose to do good. If the option to do otherwise is not present, there is little virtue in a good act.
Also, I would like to know what good this group has done for the Church as a whole. Yes, individuals do good things, but what was the motive behind the good things? Were RE programs done because it was what was best for the children and the parish or were they done in order to recruit more people to belong to Legion/Regnum?
Is Pure Fashion done because it is good for the girls or because it brings in a lot of money and can again recruit people to join to give money to the group, etc. etc. etc.?
What has been developed by this group and what has merely been taken over by them to use for their own purposes? For example, Familia. This program is a direct recruiting tool to draw others to join Regnum using the beautiful teachings of the Church as bait. This program was stolen, literally, from the couple who developed it.
Another thing that is frustrating is when people say that they have not experienced x, y, or z in this group. It really doesn't matter if that is what your experience was if a hundred other people are telling that is really what is happening. Seminarians were sexually abused whether or not you personally had that experience and it would be very nice if people would stop calling the victims liars.
Any group this small that has $30 billion is a group that I would question the methods and motives of their operation.
5.6.2010 | 4:58pm
Tweaking Weigel's Vision says:
Mr. Weigel- your watch list of a changes, I wish to note the following.
Part II: Be watchful of the structure of governance.
Maciel appropriated his idea of governance from the not-so-good side of the aging Latin socio-political power structures. In no way is this a slight against the very beautiful and rich dimensions of the Latin world, but the unscrupulous Maciel was not its best advocate.
1. At the core of the LC Power structure: Centralization of all power and control:
Old style-PRI regimes that are characterized by a self-installed and self-perpetuated oligarchical structure that has accountability only to itself is the framework to see what the Vatican will have to change in the orders operations. Successors are picked by predecessors, as Maciel pointed to Corcuera to succeed him. The power clique accepts only those who share their mindsets and one is allotted position as one passes loyalty tests.
-The fact that the whole DG staff is Mexican and much of the Nomenklatura are appointed as far as Territorial Directors are concerned.. Note well that Maciel decimated the idea of elected provincials and of the relative independence of provinces. Self sustaining and relatively independent province are how 99.9% of most religious orders operate- not so the Legion. Provincial Superiors are elected locally, and accountable to their local members, not so the Legion.
-Further he centralized control of all assets which Luiz Garza worked out through most of his tenure in a network of shadow corporations wherein all ownership is in the control of a few and all liability is distributed through operating corporations that own little or nothing.
- Finally, as noted from many former members, there is absolute, almost obsessive accountability for the rank and file- up to the purchase of aspirin for a headache, but absolutely none to the members at large for the decisions of the inner circle. It is as opaque as it gets, with a way of keeping the governed on a second tier, by the sheer ignorance they are forced to live in as the clique carries out its business and issues its order.
In part this is why I believe the nomenklatura was so useless at handling controversy. From 2009 on, was the first time the structure had to answer for itself and was found oh so wanting..
2) Charism of the leader vs. the role of the leader.
In the military they have the phrase- salute the rank not the man. In the LC it is salute the man, he has the rank. This is noted not in the principles they describe but the behavior they exhibit around superiors. Upper leaders are expected to be supermen by all appearances, and project charisms which in fact, to those who know them, know they do not have. This is why we see the oohing and awing when a major LC superior visits a house, the ball of instant fans because rank makes you necessarily the messiah... What happens in the end, that while the superior seems close, he is at the same time very distant. Rank and File in the end can't treat them like real people- they are the anointed ones, listen to them....
Further leadership is selected by the type of appearance they can project, more than any other skill of governance, and this tied to the fact most are operational figureheads, who report to the staff of the General Director. With this style of managerial development, you end up with a very shallow leadership base.
Part II: Be watchful of the structure of governance.
Maciel appropriated his idea of governance from the not-so-good side of the aging Latin socio-political power structures. In no way is this a slight against the very beautiful and rich dimensions of the Latin world, but the unscrupulous Maciel was not its best advocate.
1. At the core of the LC Power structure: Centralization of all power and control:
Old style-PRI regimes that are characterized by a self-installed and self-perpetuated oligarchical structure that has accountability only to itself is the framework to see what the Vatican will have to change in the orders operations. Successors are picked by predecessors, as Maciel pointed to Corcuera to succeed him. The power clique accepts only those who share their mindsets and one is allotted position as one passes loyalty tests.
-The fact that the whole DG staff is Mexican and much of the Nomenklatura are appointed as far as Territorial Directors are concerned.. Note well that Maciel decimated the idea of elected provincials and of the relative independence of provinces. Self sustaining and relatively independent province are how 99.9% of most religious orders operate- not so the Legion. Provincial Superiors are elected locally, and accountable to their local members, not so the Legion.
-Further he centralized control of all assets which Luiz Garza worked out through most of his tenure in a network of shadow corporations wherein all ownership is in the control of a few and all liability is distributed through operating corporations that own little or nothing.
- Finally, as noted from many former members, there is absolute, almost obsessive accountability for the rank and file- up to the purchase of aspirin for a headache, but absolutely none to the members at large for the decisions of the inner circle. It is as opaque as it gets, with a way of keeping the governed on a second tier, by the sheer ignorance they are forced to live in as the clique carries out its business and issues its order.
In part this is why I believe the nomenklatura was so useless at handling controversy. From 2009 on, was the first time the structure had to answer for itself and was found oh so wanting..
2) Charism of the leader vs. the role of the leader.
In the military they have the phrase- salute the rank not the man. In the LC it is salute the man, he has the rank. This is noted not in the principles they describe but the behavior they exhibit around superiors. Upper leaders are expected to be supermen by all appearances, and project charisms which in fact, to those who know them, know they do not have. This is why we see the oohing and awing when a major LC superior visits a house, the ball of instant fans because rank makes you necessarily the messiah... What happens in the end, that while the superior seems close, he is at the same time very distant. Rank and File in the end can't treat them like real people- they are the anointed ones, listen to them....
Further leadership is selected by the type of appearance they can project, more than any other skill of governance, and this tied to the fact most are operational figureheads, who report to the staff of the General Director. With this style of managerial development, you end up with a very shallow leadership base.
5.6.2010 | 6:22pm
Alex Hassett says:
I wanted to add my personal experience to that of Paul's. I spent 5 years in formation with the Legion and consider those years as the most rewarding, spiritually and intellectually of my life. Most Legionaries from my year till now did not have a great deal of contact with the founder and therefore joined because of what they experienced from visiting a Legionary center. I would like to mention the things that I experienced that told me that these guys were doing God's will in His Church: A spirit of charity that was contagious, happiness that I had never seen before and have not seen anywhere else in the world, and priest who gave everything to their vocation. I would like to thank Fr Julio Marti especially for his example of priestly holiness that was most prominent during the Eucharistic celebration. Examples like his gave me hope for the future of the Church and still does.
For all those who think the Legion is some scheming, brain washing cult, I challenge you to visit a Legion center near you and go to Mass. There are few places in the world that celebrate the Mass as beautiful as there.
For all those who think the Legion is some scheming, brain washing cult, I challenge you to visit a Legion center near you and go to Mass. There are few places in the world that celebrate the Mass as beautiful as there.
5.6.2010 | 6:27pm
Robberson says:
All this "back and forth" is healthy I'm sure but a bit self-absorbed and self-limiting. You and I are not addressing the world-wide influence of the LC/RC via the internet. What are we going to do about their influence upon to the millions who are seeking Christ and His Church by simply searching the internet for "catholic information"?
Google "catholic information" yourself and guess what? You'll see the following (or I did) on the first page.
1) Catholic.net (a LC/RC site}, 2) cin.org (Catholic Information Network-Msgr. Luigi Giussani who is related to zenit an LC group, 3) zenit.org (a LC/RC group), 4) forum.com (check out many of their recommended web-sites that are tied to LC), 5) catholic.org (no information at all about their owners but is a site that sells, sells and sells), 6) ncregister.com (National Catholic Register a LC/RC group).
Additionally, this cancer is not only found on individual web-sites but also within the media providers i.e.Circle Media-http://www.circlemedia.com/ look under "profile-affiliations" and they list only two:
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/
http://www.regnumchristi.org
There should be no need for me to list all the rest of the LC/RC sites and/or links to them but there are so many more.
To me this is really frightening!! Rome can go on and on about all this mess but all they can do is clean from the "top down". The LC/RC internet INFESTATION needs to be cleaned from the "bottom up" quickly. Every single day matters as there are thousands of "hits" on these dangerous sites and related links by persons seeking Christ and His Church.
Rome needs to do an immediate thorough analysis of the LC/RC internet domination/cancer and then quickly inform our Church and the "seeking" public to "beware".
Google "catholic information" yourself and guess what? You'll see the following (or I did) on the first page.
1) Catholic.net (a LC/RC site}, 2) cin.org (Catholic Information Network-Msgr. Luigi Giussani who is related to zenit an LC group, 3) zenit.org (a LC/RC group), 4) forum.com (check out many of their recommended web-sites that are tied to LC), 5) catholic.org (no information at all about their owners but is a site that sells, sells and sells), 6) ncregister.com (National Catholic Register a LC/RC group).
Additionally, this cancer is not only found on individual web-sites but also within the media providers i.e.Circle Media-http://www.circlemedia.com/ look under "profile-affiliations" and they list only two:
http://www.legionariesofchrist.org/
http://www.regnumchristi.org
There should be no need for me to list all the rest of the LC/RC sites and/or links to them but there are so many more.
To me this is really frightening!! Rome can go on and on about all this mess but all they can do is clean from the "top down". The LC/RC internet INFESTATION needs to be cleaned from the "bottom up" quickly. Every single day matters as there are thousands of "hits" on these dangerous sites and related links by persons seeking Christ and His Church.
Rome needs to do an immediate thorough analysis of the LC/RC internet domination/cancer and then quickly inform our Church and the "seeking" public to "beware".
5.6.2010 | 8:19pm
Sam says:
I was wondering what's happening with the National Catholic Register? They are an arm of the Legion and they were actively and aggressively fund raising even while the investigation was going on and recruiting for new members...is this being checked out? It seems to be that those activities would be suspended until this whole mess is cleared up...
5.7.2010 | 1:09am
Sebastian says:
George Weigel is getting more and more similar to a neocon version of Hans Kung. He is the only one who understands all situations and who knows what the Pope must do or say in every case. According to him, to heal the legionaries you have to: humiliate them publicly, treat them like dummies, punish them because of their origin, forbid God to send them vocations, extinguish their congregation and create a new one with another name and the same members. Only to make them say: we have nothing to do with Maciel. It sounds to me like nominalism, legalism, puritanism and witch-hunt syndrome. Typical gringo's weltanschauung. This is certainly not the way the Holy See is managing this case.
5.7.2010 | 1:11am
Sebastian says:
and I hope u put ALL the comments and not only those that praise your words...
5.7.2010 | 1:20am
Thams Okoli says:
This seems not to be true, but I pray that the Holy Spirit will lead the committee
to all the truth they need, and to Pope power for right judgement.
to all the truth they need, and to Pope power for right judgement.
5.7.2010 | 12:00pm
Earl Scott says:
Isn't it interesting that those of us who have experienced incredibly positive things in our lives as a result of our relationship with the Legion and the Movement don't hide behind anonymous usernames or even first names. I am a living witness of the good works of every single LC priest I have ever come into contact with and know a large number of former seminarians that have nothing but positive things to say about their experiences despite the fact that they did not ultimately pursue the vocation to the priesthood. This apparent contradiction is something most of the detractors cannot and apparently will not ever understand.
What is common to many of these folks is they all seem to think they know what is in our hearts and what motivated us in all our actions on behalf of our parish, the diocese and the Church through our vocation. Mr. Wiegel apparently believes we are naive dupes and the others think we are evil doers masquerading as good Catholics. They see nefarious plots and schemes in every action by every LC priest and RC member as if we were all just like Maciel or worse, hapless pawns of his grand plot to subvert the Church. In a way I can understand the projection of his actions on others but it is just plain wrong and I know it is wrong because I know what is in my heart and I know what motivated and what informs my decision to accept what the Holy Father decides. Unless it is along the lines of Mr. Wiegel's prescription or something more draconian, I am wondering if they likewise will accept the Holy Father's decision. Somehow I doubt it but we shall see.
What is common to many of these folks is they all seem to think they know what is in our hearts and what motivated us in all our actions on behalf of our parish, the diocese and the Church through our vocation. Mr. Wiegel apparently believes we are naive dupes and the others think we are evil doers masquerading as good Catholics. They see nefarious plots and schemes in every action by every LC priest and RC member as if we were all just like Maciel or worse, hapless pawns of his grand plot to subvert the Church. In a way I can understand the projection of his actions on others but it is just plain wrong and I know it is wrong because I know what is in my heart and I know what motivated and what informs my decision to accept what the Holy Father decides. Unless it is along the lines of Mr. Wiegel's prescription or something more draconian, I am wondering if they likewise will accept the Holy Father's decision. Somehow I doubt it but we shall see.
5.7.2010 | 1:10pm
Dear Earl Scott,
I think the choice of whether to post using one's real name or not does not hold the significance you assign it. Speaking for myself, as one of the fiercer detractors of the legion, my choice for anonymity has nothing to do with the position I take on the issue. It is simply necessary for professional reasons for me to exercise some discretion in taking ANY position on ANY controversial issue when making internet posts. I am sure the same applies to many of the other anonymous posters on this thread as well. This anonymity is an arguable regrettable but nevertheless honorable necessity. If you and I were discussing this matter privately, I would have no hesitation in revealing my identity
I think the choice of whether to post using one's real name or not does not hold the significance you assign it. Speaking for myself, as one of the fiercer detractors of the legion, my choice for anonymity has nothing to do with the position I take on the issue. It is simply necessary for professional reasons for me to exercise some discretion in taking ANY position on ANY controversial issue when making internet posts. I am sure the same applies to many of the other anonymous posters on this thread as well. This anonymity is an arguable regrettable but nevertheless honorable necessity. If you and I were discussing this matter privately, I would have no hesitation in revealing my identity
5.7.2010 | 2:41pm
Andreas says:
Dear Earl Scott,
Hi! I just want to let you know, that behind Sebastian is a legionary from Brazil. So not every one wants to write in anonimity.
I was in the Legion for 12 years, and without reason asked to leave three months before the ordination to the diaconate. 100 % against Canon Law, and without respect to the perpetual vows. That is the abouse of power that the Vatican will change. I have total trust to Our Pope, whatever He will decide.
Humility is what the Legion needs now. In 2006 they did not believe the acusations against the Founder, now they will.
God bless,
Andreas
Hi! I just want to let you know, that behind Sebastian is a legionary from Brazil. So not every one wants to write in anonimity.
I was in the Legion for 12 years, and without reason asked to leave three months before the ordination to the diaconate. 100 % against Canon Law, and without respect to the perpetual vows. That is the abouse of power that the Vatican will change. I have total trust to Our Pope, whatever He will decide.
Humility is what the Legion needs now. In 2006 they did not believe the acusations against the Founder, now they will.
God bless,
Andreas
5.7.2010 | 2:58pm
Dontwanttobesued says:
Earl,
Be thankful you are not so connected to the Legion that you might be the subject of being fired or having a lawsuit filed against you if you speak negatively of them. This has happened to people I know, and indeed, our paycheck is signed by the Legion (desperately look for a new job, not easy in this economy). This is my reason for not using my real name---don't need a lawsuit, and I don't need the stress of being the subject of a whisper campaign (I know people this has happened to as well). If you call that cowardice, so be it.
Glad you had a good experience. We have local LC priests still claiming Maciel is innocent and will one day be vindicated. Our children were being taught Maciel was a saint and reading Christ is My Life and Envoy as their only sources of spiritual growth for at least THREE years after the leaders of the Legion now admit they knew he was a fraud. That, quite frankly, is spiritual abuse of children, and not one priest who taught the grand narrative of Maciel to our children has even tried to apologize for his (likely unknowing) part in the deceit. If you find out you were feeding children poison under the guise of health food (even if you were unaware of it at the time), you beg forgiveness of those children and their parents for so putting them in harm's way.
Maciel is dead, and quite frankly, I don't care. I will pray for his soul, and that's the end of it. What outrages me now is the abuse of authority and conscience so clearly indicated by our Holy Father. There are serious problems here: AV's are not initiated as a congratulatory affirmation of an order of priests.
Let the Holy Father determine what needs to be done about the abusive system of power that was constructed by a sexual deviant and hardened criminal. Don't pretend the Holy See isn't aware of the very grave nature of the abuses perpetrated by this system of abuse of authority and conscience. The Pope states the structure was seriously affected by the spirit of its founder.
Any good these LCs and RCs have is because of the graces present in our Church NOT because of the very gravely flawed structure of abuse devised by its founder.
It's a very grave matter that has done serious harm to many. Be thankful your experience has been so good, but don't let that cloud your awareness of the suffering so many good people have endured at the hands of this order of priests and the Movement.
Be thankful you are not so connected to the Legion that you might be the subject of being fired or having a lawsuit filed against you if you speak negatively of them. This has happened to people I know, and indeed, our paycheck is signed by the Legion (desperately look for a new job, not easy in this economy). This is my reason for not using my real name---don't need a lawsuit, and I don't need the stress of being the subject of a whisper campaign (I know people this has happened to as well). If you call that cowardice, so be it.
Glad you had a good experience. We have local LC priests still claiming Maciel is innocent and will one day be vindicated. Our children were being taught Maciel was a saint and reading Christ is My Life and Envoy as their only sources of spiritual growth for at least THREE years after the leaders of the Legion now admit they knew he was a fraud. That, quite frankly, is spiritual abuse of children, and not one priest who taught the grand narrative of Maciel to our children has even tried to apologize for his (likely unknowing) part in the deceit. If you find out you were feeding children poison under the guise of health food (even if you were unaware of it at the time), you beg forgiveness of those children and their parents for so putting them in harm's way.
Maciel is dead, and quite frankly, I don't care. I will pray for his soul, and that's the end of it. What outrages me now is the abuse of authority and conscience so clearly indicated by our Holy Father. There are serious problems here: AV's are not initiated as a congratulatory affirmation of an order of priests.
Let the Holy Father determine what needs to be done about the abusive system of power that was constructed by a sexual deviant and hardened criminal. Don't pretend the Holy See isn't aware of the very grave nature of the abuses perpetrated by this system of abuse of authority and conscience. The Pope states the structure was seriously affected by the spirit of its founder.
Any good these LCs and RCs have is because of the graces present in our Church NOT because of the very gravely flawed structure of abuse devised by its founder.
It's a very grave matter that has done serious harm to many. Be thankful your experience has been so good, but don't let that cloud your awareness of the suffering so many good people have endured at the hands of this order of priests and the Movement.
5.8.2010 | 6:39am
walter says:
To all the people like the "Nestorian" that claim perfection and are condemning, Gorge, Opus Die.... and The Catholic Church, I said , go ahead....as for me and my house we will remain and love our RC Church.
To the ones that honestly follow Jesucrist I would like to advise to reed St. John chapter eight where The Lord tells to "the perfects' of this world..."Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her"
To the ones that honestly follow Jesucrist I would like to advise to reed St. John chapter eight where The Lord tells to "the perfects' of this world..."Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her"
5.8.2010 | 8:15am
Anonout says:
"Any good these LCs and RCs have is because of the graces present in our Church NOT because of the very gravely flawed structure of abuse devised by its founder."
Give credit where credit is due..to the almighty Lord God and His Church - not Maciel's sick methodology that hurt so many. Maciel used the Church's goods for his own end. Noone is knocking the zeal for Christ of these priests - just strip them of Maciel and let them get on serving the Church in true freedom and love. That is what the Pope is working hard to do - thank God!
Give credit where credit is due..to the almighty Lord God and His Church - not Maciel's sick methodology that hurt so many. Maciel used the Church's goods for his own end. Noone is knocking the zeal for Christ of these priests - just strip them of Maciel and let them get on serving the Church in true freedom and love. That is what the Pope is working hard to do - thank God!
5.8.2010 | 6:10pm
Roman Catholic says:
"Strip the LC of Maciel and let them go about their business": It's not that simple. Every great religious order or congregation that has perdured in the Catholic Church--Benedictine, Franciscan, Dominican, Jesuit, Oratorian--has been founded by a saint and defines itself according to the charisms of the founder. What do you do when the founder turns out instead to have been a candidate for excommunication? Where are the founding charisms? There are none.
5.8.2010 | 8:56pm
Katy says:
Dear all,
Two months ago I freely chose to leave consecrated life in RC due to a personal situation and not to the present LC/RC tragedy. After reading all of the comments already posted and trying to understand where each person is coming from, I would like you all to know that if it were not for the formation I received as a young girl through the Challenge clubs, as a student at Immaculate Conception Academy (girls' boarding school in RI), and as a consecrated member of RC for over five years, I would not have the incredibly close and personal relationship with Christ that I have today. I was never drawn to the founder nor to his writings, but what the Regnum Christi Movement did for me was draw me towards my (and OUR) ultimate goal and happiness which is Jesus Christ and Heaven. They provided me with all of the tools necessary to form my intelligence, my will, my talents, and to widen and deepen my capacity to give freely of myself to God and to my brothers and sisters in need. I had the sacraments of the Catholic Church at my fingertips: daily Mass, weekly confession, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, monthly retreats, annual eight-day spiritual exercises....and I did nothing to deserve, let alone pay for, all of the human and spiritual riches received over the past few years of my life. Every single consecrated women is asked to earn their Bachelor's Degree in Education--does this sound anything similar to "brainwashing" or "duping"?
I completely understand that many, many people have been unjustly deceived, disappointed, hurt, and angered, but didn't Christ Himself make it clear to us that good and evil will always co-exist in this world through His parable of the wheat and the weeds? There is no reason to condemn the Legion and the Movement, declare it done for and doomed to desintegrate and disappear, when there has been so much OBJECTIVE good that has come about due to many holy and zealous Legionary priests and RC Movement members. What about the Mano Amiga schools, Medical Missions, Mega Missions, Holy Land pilgrimages, Teletón, Crit centers (free medical facilities with top-of-the-line care for those who could not possibly pay for it), and so many more apostolic works? Must we cut down the wheat with the weeds?
Two months ago I freely chose to leave consecrated life in RC due to a personal situation and not to the present LC/RC tragedy. After reading all of the comments already posted and trying to understand where each person is coming from, I would like you all to know that if it were not for the formation I received as a young girl through the Challenge clubs, as a student at Immaculate Conception Academy (girls' boarding school in RI), and as a consecrated member of RC for over five years, I would not have the incredibly close and personal relationship with Christ that I have today. I was never drawn to the founder nor to his writings, but what the Regnum Christi Movement did for me was draw me towards my (and OUR) ultimate goal and happiness which is Jesus Christ and Heaven. They provided me with all of the tools necessary to form my intelligence, my will, my talents, and to widen and deepen my capacity to give freely of myself to God and to my brothers and sisters in need. I had the sacraments of the Catholic Church at my fingertips: daily Mass, weekly confession, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, monthly retreats, annual eight-day spiritual exercises....and I did nothing to deserve, let alone pay for, all of the human and spiritual riches received over the past few years of my life. Every single consecrated women is asked to earn their Bachelor's Degree in Education--does this sound anything similar to "brainwashing" or "duping"?
I completely understand that many, many people have been unjustly deceived, disappointed, hurt, and angered, but didn't Christ Himself make it clear to us that good and evil will always co-exist in this world through His parable of the wheat and the weeds? There is no reason to condemn the Legion and the Movement, declare it done for and doomed to desintegrate and disappear, when there has been so much OBJECTIVE good that has come about due to many holy and zealous Legionary priests and RC Movement members. What about the Mano Amiga schools, Medical Missions, Mega Missions, Holy Land pilgrimages, Teletón, Crit centers (free medical facilities with top-of-the-line care for those who could not possibly pay for it), and so many more apostolic works? Must we cut down the wheat with the weeds?
5.8.2010 | 9:40pm
sibyl says:
As a soon-to-be ex-RC member, I echo what several before me have said: the movement members I have known over the six years since my incorporation have been, without exception, vigorous, thoughtful, charitable, and active in their parishes. I've never heard one word -- really, not one -- against any priest, bishop, or pope. I live in a diocese that expelled the LC priests, and asked RC not to operate in the parishes. Never once did I hear or experience anger, bitterness or condemnation against the bishop for this action. This true charity and humble obedience is one reason that I stayed.
One other thing, though, needs to be said since in all this long discussion no one has mentioned it. For whatever reason, God has raised up various lay movements to serve Him in the Church, and some people are legitimately called by Him to enter them. It is hard for those who do not have this call to understand why we "need" anything other than parish life. It would be somewhat like telling a cloistered nun she shouldn't "need" total seclusion and silence: isn't ordinary religous life enough? (Obviously an imperfect analogy, not the least because RC members do not take vows, and that was made clear to me when I joined.)
In fact, why have rosary groups, altar societies, or any voluntary associations in the Church? Isn't it because we have the desire to live our Catholic faith in a particular way, keeping certain things to the forefront while not neglecting the others, and that we need others who are living that, as a support and encouragement? That, anyway, is my take. To those who would question whether any of the approved lay movements are of God simply have a beef with the Magisterium; the Church has ruled that the approved lay movements are indeed works of our Lord in and for His Church and the world.
Finally, I mostly agree with Mr. Weigel's recommendations. My hope is that the foundation will be dissolved and then somehow a new work can be begun. My experience with the apostolates (as opposed to the people) is that there were/are problematic elements, esp. in regard to young consciences and also to fundraising. Oh, and I don't think I'd go for the affadavit. But I'd really like to see a detailed and comprehensive list of Maciel's crimes and deceptions published everywhere. I'd like to know exactly how much I've been lied to. My sincere hope is that the senior leadership were truly as ignorant as they've claimed and that MM's deceptions were just incredibly well-constructed.
One other thing, though, needs to be said since in all this long discussion no one has mentioned it. For whatever reason, God has raised up various lay movements to serve Him in the Church, and some people are legitimately called by Him to enter them. It is hard for those who do not have this call to understand why we "need" anything other than parish life. It would be somewhat like telling a cloistered nun she shouldn't "need" total seclusion and silence: isn't ordinary religous life enough? (Obviously an imperfect analogy, not the least because RC members do not take vows, and that was made clear to me when I joined.)
In fact, why have rosary groups, altar societies, or any voluntary associations in the Church? Isn't it because we have the desire to live our Catholic faith in a particular way, keeping certain things to the forefront while not neglecting the others, and that we need others who are living that, as a support and encouragement? That, anyway, is my take. To those who would question whether any of the approved lay movements are of God simply have a beef with the Magisterium; the Church has ruled that the approved lay movements are indeed works of our Lord in and for His Church and the world.
Finally, I mostly agree with Mr. Weigel's recommendations. My hope is that the foundation will be dissolved and then somehow a new work can be begun. My experience with the apostolates (as opposed to the people) is that there were/are problematic elements, esp. in regard to young consciences and also to fundraising. Oh, and I don't think I'd go for the affadavit. But I'd really like to see a detailed and comprehensive list of Maciel's crimes and deceptions published everywhere. I'd like to know exactly how much I've been lied to. My sincere hope is that the senior leadership were truly as ignorant as they've claimed and that MM's deceptions were just incredibly well-constructed.
5.9.2010 | 5:07pm
Grateful says:
I must in good conscience reply to Katy's denial that brainwashing occurs in the consecrated life of RC. I was most certainly brainwashed during formation for the consecrated life, and I had to go through months of deprogramming and counseling to recover a coherent view of reality and to regain the ability to discriminate between my own conscience and the 'group conscience' of RC.
Perhaps not all succumb to the brainwashing as deeply as I did, perhaps some succumb even more.
What cannot be denied is that brainwashing, psychological coercion, emotional manipulation - call it what you will - occurs during the recruitment and formation of RC consecrated women and candidates for the consecrated life.
When I left the 'Movement', I, too, continued to defend it to anyone who questioned its modus operandi.
The truth will prevail, and in the meantime, those who are fortunate enough to have lived through the brainwashing, and emerged stronger from it, must continue to speak out so that those still under its sway may be set free.
Perhaps not all succumb to the brainwashing as deeply as I did, perhaps some succumb even more.
What cannot be denied is that brainwashing, psychological coercion, emotional manipulation - call it what you will - occurs during the recruitment and formation of RC consecrated women and candidates for the consecrated life.
When I left the 'Movement', I, too, continued to defend it to anyone who questioned its modus operandi.
The truth will prevail, and in the meantime, those who are fortunate enough to have lived through the brainwashing, and emerged stronger from it, must continue to speak out so that those still under its sway may be set free.
5.9.2010 | 8:04pm
Amber says:
Fact: The only reason my soul finally found the narrow path required for salvation is because I met a LC priest at a dinner party who asked how my prayer life was 5 mins after chatting. These missionary priests have the ability to meet people in different circumstances (much more so than diocesan) to aid Christ in bringing souls (who don't already regularly attend Mass for instance) to Him. I was never, ever pressurized to join RC but I can tell you I'd be dead in the water if I hadn't. I will never understand the horrific apparently sociopathic tendencies of it's founder but I know countless souls have been saved because of the good LC's. God willing, we will now deconstruct and reconstruct with God's Grace to bring the Gospel to others. I pray daily for all victims of clergy sex abuse and offer my life for reparation.
5.10.2010 | 9:20am
Martha Garza says:
As a mother of eight children, I know for certain that my four oldest would have been lost to God if it were not for the Legionaries of Christ. My oldest daughter was very strong willed and rebellious. She was leading her younger siblings on a self destructive path. She met a consecrated young lady who invited her and her friends to a party. There they encountered God for the first time. They became soldiers for Christ everywhere they went. Not one became a member of the RC. They became the light of Christ at their schools and their parish thanks to the RC. May God bless them and renew them.
5.10.2010 | 11:23am
WhatabouttheChurch? says:
Reading many of the posts here, I am struck by the frequent mention of "if it weren't for LC/RC, I (or my children) would be without the faith".
Where is the faith in the grace of the Church? I have no doubt that many LC priests have managed to effect good things. Why? Because of the graces present in our Church.
The Church has never taught that an order/congregation is necessary for the faith or salvation of souls. Every order of priests that currently exists could wither up tomorrow, and we would still have everything we need for our salvation present in our beautiful Church.
It is definitely appropriate to be grateful to those who brought you into a deeper understanding of your faith, but surely you must realize that the graces God gave them to enable them to help you so do not originate from a structure of abuse of power and a malformation that has been condemned by the Holy Father so strongly in the communique. This grace originated from God, not from the Legion.
Do you really believe that if the Legion had never existed in the first place, that God would have abandoned you? That the only way in which God was able to reach you was through the deformed structure of a deviant mind?
It astounds me how little appreciation seems to be shown for the beauty of our Church in these posts. The Legion could blow away tomorrow, and our Lord will still be able to reach souls. Truly.
Where is the faith in the grace of the Church? I have no doubt that many LC priests have managed to effect good things. Why? Because of the graces present in our Church.
The Church has never taught that an order/congregation is necessary for the faith or salvation of souls. Every order of priests that currently exists could wither up tomorrow, and we would still have everything we need for our salvation present in our beautiful Church.
It is definitely appropriate to be grateful to those who brought you into a deeper understanding of your faith, but surely you must realize that the graces God gave them to enable them to help you so do not originate from a structure of abuse of power and a malformation that has been condemned by the Holy Father so strongly in the communique. This grace originated from God, not from the Legion.
Do you really believe that if the Legion had never existed in the first place, that God would have abandoned you? That the only way in which God was able to reach you was through the deformed structure of a deviant mind?
It astounds me how little appreciation seems to be shown for the beauty of our Church in these posts. The Legion could blow away tomorrow, and our Lord will still be able to reach souls. Truly.
5.10.2010 | 5:12pm
Bill McKenzie says:
“Tell me what brand of whiskey that Grant drinks. I would like to send a barrel of it to my other generals.” – Abraham Lincoln
If this sinner, Marcial Maciel, really accomplished so much, why in the world are the rest of us forming circular firing squads instead of carefully investigating exactly what he did and reproducing it (sans corruption)? What do the rest of us have to show for our life's work compared to this wicked man? God can raise sons from stones. In this case He apparently did just that, or apparently had to do just that. God made one grievous sinner, but a man of action, to fill the shoes of a million timid souls. Those who cannot make a Legion of Christ have no business remaking it. The Church should investigate deeply, remove any offenders, and hand the Legion right back to the faithful Legionary priests who built it.
I wonder what brand of whiskey Marcial Macial drank?
If this sinner, Marcial Maciel, really accomplished so much, why in the world are the rest of us forming circular firing squads instead of carefully investigating exactly what he did and reproducing it (sans corruption)? What do the rest of us have to show for our life's work compared to this wicked man? God can raise sons from stones. In this case He apparently did just that, or apparently had to do just that. God made one grievous sinner, but a man of action, to fill the shoes of a million timid souls. Those who cannot make a Legion of Christ have no business remaking it. The Church should investigate deeply, remove any offenders, and hand the Legion right back to the faithful Legionary priests who built it.
I wonder what brand of whiskey Marcial Macial drank?
5.10.2010 | 7:11pm
Amber says:
Holy Mother Church, yes of course! Live for her, love her. I merely said a LC priest at that very moment opened my heart which of course was due only to God's grace and despite the person of the founder of the Legion. How could any person of faith ever take it out of God's merciful ways to say that that was my only opportunity? Surely not. I just know that God put him there at that moment and used him. I know I am only one soul but there are thousands like me who encountered LC or RC in the same manner! And of course the Church doesn't teach that we must first belong to an order/congregation for salvation but she has historically approved them. It's one path among many. And the Holy Father has assured us we will not be abandoned either, sorry.
5.10.2010 | 7:31pm
Glynn says:
George, you have a lot of nerve publishing this article challenging the Holy Father and how he is handling this. Many people I know are now truly questioning you, and have noticed an increasing arrogance in you. To cause continued turmoil in the Church and in the LC, which you have caused due to this article, is wrong. I will pray for you.
5.10.2010 | 7:56pm
Dr Astrid Wiondfuhr says:
lots of interesting comments.....
to Earl Scott, hi Earl I think I know who you are, I believe your son came down to NZ 18 months ago?
Earl I was an RC member for 12 years, esoecially integrated in the last 5 years with lots of responsibility. I have met truely amazing priests, consecrated and lay people through the movement. I left last June because of the lack of integrity with which the LC leadership approached their problems. 6 months after I left the blinkers came off and I recognized that for the last 6 years I wasn't serving Christ but I was busy in and for the movement only. Although we were told to centre on Christ, the methodology in fact kept me away from Him. I abandoned my ability to hear the voice of the HS in the depth of my being while being in RC. This experience is described by many people who have left the movement. I am not criticizing for one minute the well intentioned LC/RC members but I am saying that they live in a system and methodology that is very sick. Because of this they are unable to see the objective truth about themselves - hence the Holy Father's actions. I have no doubt because of this inability to see the process ahead will be long and painful.
God Bless, Astrid
to Earl Scott, hi Earl I think I know who you are, I believe your son came down to NZ 18 months ago?
Earl I was an RC member for 12 years, esoecially integrated in the last 5 years with lots of responsibility. I have met truely amazing priests, consecrated and lay people through the movement. I left last June because of the lack of integrity with which the LC leadership approached their problems. 6 months after I left the blinkers came off and I recognized that for the last 6 years I wasn't serving Christ but I was busy in and for the movement only. Although we were told to centre on Christ, the methodology in fact kept me away from Him. I abandoned my ability to hear the voice of the HS in the depth of my being while being in RC. This experience is described by many people who have left the movement. I am not criticizing for one minute the well intentioned LC/RC members but I am saying that they live in a system and methodology that is very sick. Because of this they are unable to see the objective truth about themselves - hence the Holy Father's actions. I have no doubt because of this inability to see the process ahead will be long and painful.
God Bless, Astrid
5.10.2010 | 8:00pm
Dr Astrid Windfuhr says:
Glynn, it isn't George who is causing havoc, and no where in his article is he telling the Holy Father what to do. I believe thatmany of George's suggestion are already part of the Holy Father's plan. It is time to stop being 'serene' and 'prudent' about this mess. The havoc was caused by a poisonous methodology that LC and RC don't seem to wnat to devorce themselves from. No more silence!!!!
5.11.2010 | 4:42am
WhatabouttheChurch? says:
Amber,
"And the Holy Father has assured us we will not be abandoned either, sorry. "
Of course the Holy Father won't abandon his sheep. I hope I misread the "sorry" at the end as you suggesting somehow I WANT the pope to abandon the LC/RC members. Because that would be truly offensive.
I have never doubted for a minute that the Pope would be lovingly pastoral when it comes to freeing the LC/RC from the malicious aspects of Maciel's system of power and abuse. The purification will be painful, but the Pope will never make you go through it alone. Nor will God.
"I know I am only one soul but there are thousands like me who encountered LC or RC in the same manner!"
No doubt, but don't forget that there are many people who have lost their faith due to the abuse and damage they received at the hands of the LC/RC. I don't how much "good" has to done by the Legion to make it worth the loss of even one soul because of the methodology. I can't help but think that if even one soul is lost due to LC, it would be much better had it never existed, despite all the claims about how much good has been done through it. All the good that has been accomplished is due to God's grace, which could have easily been granted by God through other means if the Legion didn't exist. But all the evil that has been wreaked by this order has come directly from Maciel's methodology.
God speaks harshly of those who scandalize a child. I'm afraid that many have been scandalized by the LC/RC over the decades.
"And the Holy Father has assured us we will not be abandoned either, sorry. "
Of course the Holy Father won't abandon his sheep. I hope I misread the "sorry" at the end as you suggesting somehow I WANT the pope to abandon the LC/RC members. Because that would be truly offensive.
I have never doubted for a minute that the Pope would be lovingly pastoral when it comes to freeing the LC/RC from the malicious aspects of Maciel's system of power and abuse. The purification will be painful, but the Pope will never make you go through it alone. Nor will God.
"I know I am only one soul but there are thousands like me who encountered LC or RC in the same manner!"
No doubt, but don't forget that there are many people who have lost their faith due to the abuse and damage they received at the hands of the LC/RC. I don't how much "good" has to done by the Legion to make it worth the loss of even one soul because of the methodology. I can't help but think that if even one soul is lost due to LC, it would be much better had it never existed, despite all the claims about how much good has been done through it. All the good that has been accomplished is due to God's grace, which could have easily been granted by God through other means if the Legion didn't exist. But all the evil that has been wreaked by this order has come directly from Maciel's methodology.
God speaks harshly of those who scandalize a child. I'm afraid that many have been scandalized by the LC/RC over the decades.
5.11.2010 | 10:41am
humble servant says:
It is very interesting that Weigel has put so much energy and thought into a solution, as if he had any authority or connections. We all have opinions, but such a long and detailed list leaves me sad that he must be very hurt himself by all this. So many victims, so much healing needed! However, first and foremost, there must be humility, and judgements limited to facts. Yes, Fr. Maciel was clearly criminally, morally wrong. But to judge those who believed his innocence as participants in the crimes is ludicrous. Weigel owes no apology for his previous support, but should acknowledge that it is possible for innocent and righteous people to be deceived. All the experiences shared, whether postive or negative, must be given credibility. Scripture says that weeds and wheat will grow together, and the Legion is proof of that. We are also warned that going after the weeds could damage the wheat, so we should heed that wisdom in our judgement and actions for the future of the Legion. Pray for the victims, for the holy men and women who generously answered a vocation call, for the Holy Father and those who must determine the course of action. The prideful attacking is tearing down, rather than building up, the Kingdom.
5.11.2010 | 12:43pm
Robberson says:
Respectfully to all,
I have no doubt that over these multiple decades millions of prayers/Rosaries were spoken/offered by many thousands within the LC/RC communities. Was something missing?
Might it be that such immersion i.e. reliance solely upon prayers could be considered "lip service" when God calls His disciples to action?
Might it be that at least some of the time spent in prayer should be allocated to action?
Might it be that far to often prayer is the "safe" alternative when faced by evil in this world?
Might it be that when confronted by evil God calls us to sacrifice self, position, prestige and/or honor in His name?
Might it be during these dreadful times for His Church He calls us to DO something-not just TALK to Him?
I have no doubt that over these multiple decades millions of prayers/Rosaries were spoken/offered by many thousands within the LC/RC communities. Was something missing?
Might it be that such immersion i.e. reliance solely upon prayers could be considered "lip service" when God calls His disciples to action?
Might it be that at least some of the time spent in prayer should be allocated to action?
Might it be that far to often prayer is the "safe" alternative when faced by evil in this world?
Might it be that when confronted by evil God calls us to sacrifice self, position, prestige and/or honor in His name?
Might it be during these dreadful times for His Church He calls us to DO something-not just TALK to Him?
5.12.2010 | 6:31am
Kim says:
With all due respect Robberson:
Huh? You show you have researched LC/RC via the internet so you are aware of all the many, many missions they do with the poor, elderly, families, etc. First prayer which then impels action as defined by LC/RC and many other orders/congregations.
Huh? You show you have researched LC/RC via the internet so you are aware of all the many, many missions they do with the poor, elderly, families, etc. First prayer which then impels action as defined by LC/RC and many other orders/congregations.
5.12.2010 | 6:37am
nat says:
Ted Zettel: "Personally, I believe that we are witnessing something in the life of Fr. Maciel that we are hesitant to face squarely; the profound mystery of great virtue and terrible deceit coexisting simultaneously in one person."
Catholic Church: "The very serious and objectively immoral behaviour of Fr. Maciel, as incontrovertible evidence has confirmed...manifests a life devoid of scruple and of genuine religious sentiment".
ONE of you is very very wrong.
Catholic Church: "The very serious and objectively immoral behaviour of Fr. Maciel, as incontrovertible evidence has confirmed...manifests a life devoid of scruple and of genuine religious sentiment".
ONE of you is very very wrong.
5.12.2010 | 9:27am
Robberson says:
Hi Kim, my point must have been poorly made. Sorry! I am speaking of the LC/RC members and others who knew of his and or the LC/RC faults and chose to safely/only pray as an alternative to risking their position etc. by "standing up" and taking action to protect the innocent. That's what I meant by "lip-service" and I might add my challenge is not limited to the LC/RC's alone but rather applicable Catholics everywhere.
5.12.2010 | 4:44pm
Romy says:
Panic in the streets!!! All Legionaries must be quarantined and inoculated!! De-loused even!!
George, George, George, take it easy. The sky will not fall. You might think about those solid, dedicated LC who have been earnestly working for many decades to hold up the Church - and you, too, George. In some way you (and all the Church) have benefited from their work in the vineyard. Let's be calm and recollected and leave it to our very wise Pope who never ceases to amaze the world with his proper handling of myriad situations. Out of respect for him, the Legionaries, the delegate and the commission, let us let them do their job with grace and hope.
George, George, George, take it easy. The sky will not fall. You might think about those solid, dedicated LC who have been earnestly working for many decades to hold up the Church - and you, too, George. In some way you (and all the Church) have benefited from their work in the vineyard. Let's be calm and recollected and leave it to our very wise Pope who never ceases to amaze the world with his proper handling of myriad situations. Out of respect for him, the Legionaries, the delegate and the commission, let us let them do their job with grace and hope.
5.12.2010 | 5:12pm
Diane Brock Falk says:
I am Roman Catholic and a Regnum Christi woman.
First and foremost, I grieve for all who were abused and damaged in any way, and
then doubly injured by the disbelief suffered. The sin perpetrated against you was unconscionable, and those actions cry to heaven. It is criminal to be sure. I am useless to help heal your suffering, but can only offer to remember you every day, and hold you close in my prayer.
Secondly, these crimes, heinous ones, can not be changed unfortunately, but the future can, and hopefully with the light that is being shone into many of the darkened areas of our church, this will never be allowed to happen undisclosed and unreported, to anyone, anywhere, anymore. To that end, the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi members will wholeheartedly submit to the directives and guidance of the Holy Catholic Church through Christ's Vicar on earth, Pope Benedict XVI, in whatever way is seen fit by the Holy See. We ache for healing as well.
Thirdly, I have read each post and see that this excoriating pain has reverberated hroughout the entire Body of Christ. I am sorry, so very sorry at what has happened, and additionally grieved at the discord that has been planted among us; catholics against each other, discussing who is right, who is wrong and whether we should remain in service to the church or not, and how it is to happen. Let us all pray for only that which Our Lord Himself desires is done, ask for His love and mercy on His entire Church and that His reign is borne in the hearts of each and every one of us, for the glory of His Father.
And finally, I will leave you with the last portion of the Statement of the Holy See, which no one I believe has reiterated:
Statement of the Holy See
7. Finally, to all Legionaries of Christ, their families, committed lay
people in the Regnum Christi movement, the Holy Father renews his
encouragement during this difficult time for the Congregation and each one
of them. He urges them not to lose sight that their vocation, which
originated from Christ’s call and is animated by the ideal to witness his
love to the world, is a true gift from God, a treasure for the Church, the
indestructible foundation on which to build their personal future and that
of the Legion.
Thank you, brothers and sisters in Christ.
First and foremost, I grieve for all who were abused and damaged in any way, and
then doubly injured by the disbelief suffered. The sin perpetrated against you was unconscionable, and those actions cry to heaven. It is criminal to be sure. I am useless to help heal your suffering, but can only offer to remember you every day, and hold you close in my prayer.
Secondly, these crimes, heinous ones, can not be changed unfortunately, but the future can, and hopefully with the light that is being shone into many of the darkened areas of our church, this will never be allowed to happen undisclosed and unreported, to anyone, anywhere, anymore. To that end, the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi members will wholeheartedly submit to the directives and guidance of the Holy Catholic Church through Christ's Vicar on earth, Pope Benedict XVI, in whatever way is seen fit by the Holy See. We ache for healing as well.
Thirdly, I have read each post and see that this excoriating pain has reverberated hroughout the entire Body of Christ. I am sorry, so very sorry at what has happened, and additionally grieved at the discord that has been planted among us; catholics against each other, discussing who is right, who is wrong and whether we should remain in service to the church or not, and how it is to happen. Let us all pray for only that which Our Lord Himself desires is done, ask for His love and mercy on His entire Church and that His reign is borne in the hearts of each and every one of us, for the glory of His Father.
And finally, I will leave you with the last portion of the Statement of the Holy See, which no one I believe has reiterated:
Statement of the Holy See
7. Finally, to all Legionaries of Christ, their families, committed lay
people in the Regnum Christi movement, the Holy Father renews his
encouragement during this difficult time for the Congregation and each one
of them. He urges them not to lose sight that their vocation, which
originated from Christ’s call and is animated by the ideal to witness his
love to the world, is a true gift from God, a treasure for the Church, the
indestructible foundation on which to build their personal future and that
of the Legion.
Thank you, brothers and sisters in Christ.
5.12.2010 | 5:15pm
Kim says:
Robberson,
Get your point now. I would actually like to think that prayer would lead one to do the right thing; that it would reveal consciences. Alas, we can at least be reminded how important it is to remain in God's grace and offer a regular, thorough confession so we will recognize wrongdoing and evil tendencies in ourselves and 'do the right thing' by God. Let us not forget fasting and sacrifice!
I believe most of LC/RC will survive in some form and that could only be a good thing.
Get your point now. I would actually like to think that prayer would lead one to do the right thing; that it would reveal consciences. Alas, we can at least be reminded how important it is to remain in God's grace and offer a regular, thorough confession so we will recognize wrongdoing and evil tendencies in ourselves and 'do the right thing' by God. Let us not forget fasting and sacrifice!
I believe most of LC/RC will survive in some form and that could only be a good thing.
5.13.2010 | 8:22am
PN says:
George,
Thanks for your article. I was in the Legion for 12 years and had the chance to work in the General Secretariate for 5 years. I know how things are cooked at the highest level. The internal goverment is totally centralized. Facts and issues are given a twist (not open lies). There is a policy to hughly increase the number of seminarians, priests and RC membres, to over exploit the sucess of apostolic works, etc. in an effort to claim that "a tree is known by its fruits". I had my diferences with Maciel because I did question some methods and practices, among them recruiting and how the apostolic shools and novitiates are managed. The result was that I was relegated.
I have never regreted joining the Legion as I have never regreted leaving it. I did it with purity of heart, seeking to serve God, His Church and my fellow men.
Some people say Maciel did God's work. I think he did the devil's. Let's look around us: the Church and the Papacy are under attack for ignoring, and covering up, what Maciel did; scandal has affected many Catholics (believe me there are many more Catholics outside RC than inside it), people who before considered JPII a great saint are now questioning him, etc. The sum of all the damage being done, and what is still to come, is greater than the good done.
If there was no founding charism by Maciel, there should be no congregation.
Thanks for your article. I was in the Legion for 12 years and had the chance to work in the General Secretariate for 5 years. I know how things are cooked at the highest level. The internal goverment is totally centralized. Facts and issues are given a twist (not open lies). There is a policy to hughly increase the number of seminarians, priests and RC membres, to over exploit the sucess of apostolic works, etc. in an effort to claim that "a tree is known by its fruits". I had my diferences with Maciel because I did question some methods and practices, among them recruiting and how the apostolic shools and novitiates are managed. The result was that I was relegated.
I have never regreted joining the Legion as I have never regreted leaving it. I did it with purity of heart, seeking to serve God, His Church and my fellow men.
Some people say Maciel did God's work. I think he did the devil's. Let's look around us: the Church and the Papacy are under attack for ignoring, and covering up, what Maciel did; scandal has affected many Catholics (believe me there are many more Catholics outside RC than inside it), people who before considered JPII a great saint are now questioning him, etc. The sum of all the damage being done, and what is still to come, is greater than the good done.
If there was no founding charism by Maciel, there should be no congregation.
5.15.2010 | 9:01am
GG says:
I went to a Legion school, my kids went to one too, and gave RC a try for a while. Since I was a kid I perceived the cult to Maciel as exagerated and hated the way they will ostracize anyone who disagree with them. I also disagree completely on their aggressive recruitment BUT I thought they had great religious instruction so my kids attended their school, youngest one still there, but I never let them join any afternoon clubs, or extra activities and I lecture them on the dark side of the Legion, now that everything came out their friends were really suffering and employing the great narrative, others are mad for their times worshiping Maciel. My kids are pretty calm about it, they know there are good people there, good priest doing good job, but we all believe the Legion should not survive cause it is impossible for the people in it to really get it right. they had been almost brainwashed, they need to get out ,period. I don't see the need to preserve the Legion,all the good that is done through his great members can be continued in others areas of the church. Here in my hometown there are plenty of opportunities to do so. Move on, that simple.
5.18.2010 | 10:02am
larry mulligan says:
Dr. Grizez & Mr. Wiegel -
My Q is, does not this experience call into question the wisdom of the personal prelature as a form of organization in the Church?
My Q is, does not this experience call into question the wisdom of the personal prelature as a form of organization in the Church?
5.28.2010 | 10:49am
Carlos says:
I also spent a little over ten years in the Legion, and the word "hysteria" comes to mind when I read Mr. Wiegel's piece and some of the comments here. I was never forced to stay if I didn't want to, no cult practices, no mind control, none of that other baloney that so many talk about. My time within the Legion was undoubtedly the greatest gift I have received from God, after my baptism. It was an honor to be among such men of God during that period of my life. The founder was a sinner and perhaps suffered deeper emotional trauma. Guess what - I'm a sinner too and so is every person on this planet. Very few of us can claim to be emotionally intact. Let's just let the Church handle it and pray for those saintly men and women who must now be going through unspeakable anguish during this time of trial. The Church needs them and it profits her nothing to cave in to the hysteria that continues to surround this issue. Let us keep the Legion and Regnum Christi in our prayers, and let our words be words of encouragement characterized by true charity.
5.28.2010 | 12:50pm
PSiena says:
Carlos,
It is good you had an enriching experience. However in trying to give your broader opinion over what needs to be done you invalidate
1) the on average 35% to 40% of former LCs who say their experiences were painful and damaging in varying degrees.
2) The conclusions the Church herself has made in its Visitation, and found the system you experienced to be damaged in its charism, in its governance, in its formation, in its apostolate. Bishop Watty's interview after the communique made it clear the Vatican sees trauma, and the Holy Father means to carry out a serious and prolonged intervention. "Hysteria", even if it exaggerates Weigel's comprehensive list of recommendations, is actually much closer the Holy's See's "to do" list than the 'all is well' one you propose.
It is good you had an enriching experience. However in trying to give your broader opinion over what needs to be done you invalidate
1) the on average 35% to 40% of former LCs who say their experiences were painful and damaging in varying degrees.
2) The conclusions the Church herself has made in its Visitation, and found the system you experienced to be damaged in its charism, in its governance, in its formation, in its apostolate. Bishop Watty's interview after the communique made it clear the Vatican sees trauma, and the Holy Father means to carry out a serious and prolonged intervention. "Hysteria", even if it exaggerates Weigel's comprehensive list of recommendations, is actually much closer the Holy's See's "to do" list than the 'all is well' one you propose.
5.28.2010 | 6:33pm
susan says:
It all moves too slowly. What of the LC seminarians waiting to be ordained in the next 7 to 18 months? They need answers and concrete options now. Not in so many months or years. How could a Legionary priest now be effective and fruitful given the sordid baggage of Maciel they must carry? It would seem impossible. The Church needs to quickly release these young men from LC commitment and give them clear options. There are many with valid, sincere priestly vocations, but they should be fast tracked away from the LC "brand" ASAP. It is a pressing need.
5.29.2010 | 7:08pm
Hysterical Pope? says:
"The Church needs them and it profits her nothing to cave in to the hysteria that continues to surround this issue. "
So now the Pope is caving in to hysteria?
I've heard the Pope accused of many things, but caving in to hysteria has never been one of them.
I do pray that God will guide the Holy Father in the best way to dismantle all the unhealthy abuses running rampant in this order of priests. I trust the pope to try to fix this mess in the most loving and pastoral manner possible, for the sake of all the good people unknowingly sucked into the abusive power system of a man "devoid of scruples and genuine religious sentiment" (when was the last time you ever heard the Vatican describe anybody that way? much less the founder of a religious order)
Visitator Watty (and remember, the communique clearly spelled out that all five visitators were in agreement and accord in this matter) very emphatically declared that the investigation discovered Maciel's evil personality had extremely negative effects on the very structure of the order.
This isn't a joke, Carlos, and the pope is not "caving in to hysteria". The Pope and five senior Vatican officials who have all spent months and months investigating this order are quite obviously alarmed at what they found. And for good reason.
Real charity requires telling the truth.
Like it or not, a major sea change is coming for the LC/RC. And anybody who pretends otherwise at this point is beyond naive
"Let's just let the Church handle it and pray for those saintly men and women who must now be going through unspeakable anguish during this time of trial."
By saintly men and women I truly hope you mean the victims who tried for years to sound the alarm about Maciel, who tried to protect other children from this man and the order of priest he created as the perfect cover-up for his crimes. You know, the ones the Pope singled out and praised in the Communique? Praised for their perseverance and courage in trying to reveal the truth in the face of great hardship?
I definitely pray for all those whom Maciel sodomized, impregnated, embezzled from, and committed terrible calumny against, all while his Legion priests praised him as a living saint, used only his spiritual poison to form the young children in their care, and joined him in calling the molestation victims liars, enemies, and workers of the devil. THOSE are the people who have experienced truly unspeakable anguish, all at this hands of this order of supposedly Catholic priests and its sociopathic founder, Maciel.
I do pray for all those men and women inside the LC/RC as well. I hope Benedict will find a way to salvage all the good that so many of these people brought to the table when they entered LC/RC, completely unaware that good was being exploited by the system of abuse created by an evil man and reflective of his corruption.
So now the Pope is caving in to hysteria?
I've heard the Pope accused of many things, but caving in to hysteria has never been one of them.
I do pray that God will guide the Holy Father in the best way to dismantle all the unhealthy abuses running rampant in this order of priests. I trust the pope to try to fix this mess in the most loving and pastoral manner possible, for the sake of all the good people unknowingly sucked into the abusive power system of a man "devoid of scruples and genuine religious sentiment" (when was the last time you ever heard the Vatican describe anybody that way? much less the founder of a religious order)
Visitator Watty (and remember, the communique clearly spelled out that all five visitators were in agreement and accord in this matter) very emphatically declared that the investigation discovered Maciel's evil personality had extremely negative effects on the very structure of the order.
This isn't a joke, Carlos, and the pope is not "caving in to hysteria". The Pope and five senior Vatican officials who have all spent months and months investigating this order are quite obviously alarmed at what they found. And for good reason.
Real charity requires telling the truth.
Like it or not, a major sea change is coming for the LC/RC. And anybody who pretends otherwise at this point is beyond naive
"Let's just let the Church handle it and pray for those saintly men and women who must now be going through unspeakable anguish during this time of trial."
By saintly men and women I truly hope you mean the victims who tried for years to sound the alarm about Maciel, who tried to protect other children from this man and the order of priest he created as the perfect cover-up for his crimes. You know, the ones the Pope singled out and praised in the Communique? Praised for their perseverance and courage in trying to reveal the truth in the face of great hardship?
I definitely pray for all those whom Maciel sodomized, impregnated, embezzled from, and committed terrible calumny against, all while his Legion priests praised him as a living saint, used only his spiritual poison to form the young children in their care, and joined him in calling the molestation victims liars, enemies, and workers of the devil. THOSE are the people who have experienced truly unspeakable anguish, all at this hands of this order of supposedly Catholic priests and its sociopathic founder, Maciel.
I do pray for all those men and women inside the LC/RC as well. I hope Benedict will find a way to salvage all the good that so many of these people brought to the table when they entered LC/RC, completely unaware that good was being exploited by the system of abuse created by an evil man and reflective of his corruption.
8.14.2010 | 10:07am
Paul Lennon says:
This article is still relevant even after the appointment of Apostolic Delegate; the author foresaw several measures that would be taken. I do believe we should re read this article which has a certain prophetic element; "prophetic" in the Biblical sense of warning, forewarning, and indicating certain steps that need to be taken to safeguard truth and justice. I fear that if the Apostolic Delegate does not hear this warning cry he is doomed to do a shabby job, and the Legion Virus will survive, grow, and increase. The problem is not a question of Doctrine but of Practice; the heart of the matter is the Legion/Regnum Modus Operandi -the secretive and deceitful way it systematically operates , not its Modus Docendi or Modus Credendi, not its doctrine.
9.11.2010 | 7:29pm
Gerardo says:
I was a numerary member of Opus Dei for more than 20 years. LC/RC and Opus Dei are similar in several aspects. The more important is the deceiving: you enter to Opus Dei expecting to be a lay but instead you become a consecrated without knowing –and without consent- because you do not know anything about consecrated life. You think you are a lay but a lay living as a monk.
A lot of elements come from that kind of life Opus Dei says it is not the life you are going to live: consecrated life. This is a deceiving way of telling the truth.
I think Opus Dei will be “the next”. I do not when, but it is a similar case.
A lot of people suffer from that kind of fraud because they were call for a lay life, not the other kind. For that reason, too much members and ex members suffer depression.
If you ask about Opus Dei go to Code of Canon Law and read the chapters related to consecrated life: there is a temporary profession (oblation) and a perpetual profession (fidelity) but as a member you do not know that, because you do not know anything about vows and that kind of life.
You have to make a testament before the Fidelity. You can´t leave the prelature without a dispensation. These kinds of things only happen in a consecrated life.
Escrivá said: whoever leaves the vocation will suffer in this life and his eternal salvation will be in danger. And you can´t go out of Opus Dei for help: it would mean the abysm.
These ideas could be found in the six books of “Meditations”, only for members and not for the public.
Nobody needs to believe me. I do not want that. Common sense and be believable are not enough. Escrivá was absolutely believable. Maciel was it too.
A serious research –made by the Church- will unveil the facts about Opus Dei. In the last years a lot of new information emerges, for the public knowledge but especially for the members and ex members. The only inconvenient is that this information is in Spanish.
Opus Dei is a personal prelature, but internally is a secular institute: this is so strange.
Sorry for my English, is not my native language.
A lot of elements come from that kind of life Opus Dei says it is not the life you are going to live: consecrated life. This is a deceiving way of telling the truth.
I think Opus Dei will be “the next”. I do not when, but it is a similar case.
A lot of people suffer from that kind of fraud because they were call for a lay life, not the other kind. For that reason, too much members and ex members suffer depression.
If you ask about Opus Dei go to Code of Canon Law and read the chapters related to consecrated life: there is a temporary profession (oblation) and a perpetual profession (fidelity) but as a member you do not know that, because you do not know anything about vows and that kind of life.
You have to make a testament before the Fidelity. You can´t leave the prelature without a dispensation. These kinds of things only happen in a consecrated life.
Escrivá said: whoever leaves the vocation will suffer in this life and his eternal salvation will be in danger. And you can´t go out of Opus Dei for help: it would mean the abysm.
These ideas could be found in the six books of “Meditations”, only for members and not for the public.
Nobody needs to believe me. I do not want that. Common sense and be believable are not enough. Escrivá was absolutely believable. Maciel was it too.
A serious research –made by the Church- will unveil the facts about Opus Dei. In the last years a lot of new information emerges, for the public knowledge but especially for the members and ex members. The only inconvenient is that this information is in Spanish.
Opus Dei is a personal prelature, but internally is a secular institute: this is so strange.
Sorry for my English, is not my native language.
10.16.2010 | 3:39am
juan J. Vaca says:
George,
You might know that I was a member of the Legion of Christ (1947-1976), victim of sexual abuse by the criminal-predator Marcial Maciel, L.C., former catholic priest for twenty years, and presently a college professor of behavioral sciences.
I honestly do not understand the purpose/intent of your long-winded article, "Next Acts In The Legionary Drama". Is it because you also are one of the many naive-credulous-well intentioned peolple who were deceived by the master of deceit, criminal-impostor Marcial Maciel and by his pathetic defenders, and now, out of remorse, you want to make amends to your former erroneous position?
The following is just a suggestion. Please, consider what your "next act" should be: to honestly apologize to all Maciel's and Legion's VICTIMS (yours truly included) for the harm you caused to us all, when you wrote that insensitive and arrogant article (June 24, 2002), praising Maciel and "his wonderful Legiionaries"... Words so offensive to each one of us, victims and survivors.
I will accept your apology with no resentment, and appreciate your dialogue with honesty.
Sincerely, Juan J. Vaca.
You might know that I was a member of the Legion of Christ (1947-1976), victim of sexual abuse by the criminal-predator Marcial Maciel, L.C., former catholic priest for twenty years, and presently a college professor of behavioral sciences.
I honestly do not understand the purpose/intent of your long-winded article, "Next Acts In The Legionary Drama". Is it because you also are one of the many naive-credulous-well intentioned peolple who were deceived by the master of deceit, criminal-impostor Marcial Maciel and by his pathetic defenders, and now, out of remorse, you want to make amends to your former erroneous position?
The following is just a suggestion. Please, consider what your "next act" should be: to honestly apologize to all Maciel's and Legion's VICTIMS (yours truly included) for the harm you caused to us all, when you wrote that insensitive and arrogant article (June 24, 2002), praising Maciel and "his wonderful Legiionaries"... Words so offensive to each one of us, victims and survivors.
I will accept your apology with no resentment, and appreciate your dialogue with honesty.
Sincerely, Juan J. Vaca.
7.29.2011 | 7:14am
Chris says:
What I can't understand is how anyone can actually believe that the Legionaries have a future. Who would join even a re-constituted congregation? Its horribly tainted history would dog it forever. You'd have to be crazy or a saint to join. Since there very few saints and a superabundance of crazies out there, surely all these rescue efforts are a waste of time.
Thank you for this article. And thank you, First Things, for publishing it. I am glad to see the Catholic Media finally addressing the Legionary problem.
I especially like your point that great evils require a remedy of heroic virtue. This is not a case of "God drawing straight with crooked lines" or "Bringing Good out of Evil." Great evil has been done, and it must be confronted with an even greater Good.