A few days ago I was walking along the woodland trails of the national park near my home with my son Patrick and dog Roland (I think I have that the right way around). When we had set out, the sky was overcast, traces of the morning’s mist were still drifting among the trees, and the gold, scarlet, and stubborn green of the foliage around us was gently glistening from the previous night’s rain.
But by the time we had reached the rise in the trail that lies almost exactly midway along our accustomed path, where a clearing to the left over a steeply descending slope allows us to look down on the lake at the park’s center, the mist was gone; and, as we paused there, sunlight broke from the clouds overhead just as a gust of wind sent hundreds of pale yellow leaves from the poplars on the opposite side of the lake swirling high over the water in a vast dancing spiral. All at once, everything was shining: the lingering droplets of rain shaken down on us from the branches above flashed iridescently in the air; the lead-gray lake was changed to a radiant, silvery blue; Roland’s nose became positively resplendent in its glossiness.
Autumn is the most beautiful and most mysterious of the seasons, at least to me, just as twilight is the most beautiful and mysterious part of the day. There is something so hypnotically uncanny about these liminal times—between summer and winter, between day and night—partly because of the obliging softness of the light, which lends such depth and subtlety to the world’s colors, and partly because of the strange feeling of suspense that pervades them.
Everything seems to hover tremulously in a state of pure transformation, slowly passing from one fixed condition to another—from seething torpor to icy dormancy, from light to darkness. There is a haunting sense that everything has been briefly displaced from any proper order, that almost anything might happen, that strange, lovely, and mighty forms are moving just behind the surface of reality. These are the times when one is most immediately aware of the numinous within nature.
This, at any rate, was what I said to my son—in very different terms—as we stood there looking down over the lake, and he agreed with me heartily. Then he observed that a forest is always a mysterious place, no matter what the season, and I had to concede the point, with a discreet thrill of paternal pride. But then he remarked that this must be why people used to believe there were spirits of the trees and streams, before science discovered that there are no such beings.
I was stunned; his words pierced me to the core. Where on earth, I wondered, had he acquired this dreadful superstition? Who had corrupted his eleven-year-old mind with the abominable nonsense that science had somehow “discovered” the nonexistence of nature spirits, or that modern empirical method could ever possibly be competent to do such a thing? Suppressing my alarm as best I could, I quickly interrogated him, and within a few moments had learned the title of the offending school text.
Then, as we resumed our stroll, I assured him patiently but emphatically that it was all so much sordid twaddle, and that we have absolutely no warrant for assuming that we know any better than our distant ancestors on this score: indeed, they may have been far better attuned to the deeper truths of nature than we now are. He was pleased to be corrected. (Roland merely heaved a longanimous sigh.)
As far as Patrick was concerned, the matter had been settled; but I have to admit that the episode continues to trouble me. It is not that I expect my son never to be exposed to any of the conceptual confusion or magical claptrap of his age; and I trust to his native intelligence to disabuse him of the worst of it. But it is still depressing to think how much conceited gibberish has become simply part of the received wisdom of our time.
It puts me in mind of a particularly annoying witticism that one occasionally encounters in the current popular debates between atheists and theists: the orgulous infidel waves his hand contemptuously and announces that he believes neither that there is a God nor that there are fairies at the bottom of his garden—or (a slight variation on the theme) observes that everyone in the room is an unbeliever when it comes to Thor or Baal, and that the atheist is simply an unbeliever in one god more.
There are two reasons for treating such remarks with indignant disdain: the obvious one and mine. The obvious one, of course, is that only a simpleton could mistake these two orders of conviction for specimens of the same kind of belief.
A person who believes in fairies or in Thor may or may not be mistaken about certain finite objects within the cosmos; a person who believes in God may or may not be mistaken about being, the nature of existence itself, the logical possibility of any world, the moral meaning of the universe, and so on. The former kind of belief concerns facts of experience, the latter truths of reason, and to suggest that they occupy the same conceptual or existential space is either to confess one’s own stupidity or willfully to engage in cheap rhetorical thuggery.
That though, as I say, is obvious. My reason for taking exception to such remarks is perhaps somewhat more precious, but still quite sincere. Simply enough, what if there are fairies at the bottom of one’s garden? Or, more precisely, what the hell is so irrational in believing there are or might be?
One may be in error on the matter, naturally—one may just have misread the signs—but one cannot justly be accused of having committed any trespass against logic. Nothing gives us warrant to imagine that, on account of our grasp of various organic processes, we have succeeded in lifting the veil of Isis.
Well, I blame Francis Bacon. I know, I know: one can talk of Christianity’s “desacralization” of creation, or of the Enlightenment having delivered humanity from the terrors of the “demon-haunted world,” but all of that is misleading.
Perhaps Christianity chased the gods and sprites away, or forced them to assume different forms, but it never did so entirely. And, after all, Paul never suggested that the elemental powers or ethereal principalities were illusions; he merely claimed that they had been made subject to Christ. The author of Colossians even seems to say that they have now been reconciled to God. As for the Enlightenment, whatever one imagines that might be, on this issue it marks not an advance from ignorance to understanding, but only a mutation of conceptual paradigms.
And the principal author of that mutation, at least as an explicit and systematic intellectual project, was Bacon. It was he who chose to establish his new model of the sciences by proscribing any consideration of formal and final causes, and to approach all of nature as something analogous to a mindless machine, and to accept as knowledge only the kind of comprehension that gives one the power to control and manipulate that machine. And, for better and worse, it was a remarkably successful project, as every new successful therapy for a previously fatal disease and every new weapon of mass murder reminds us.
In Bacon’s defense, of course, one could argue (charitably, if not quite accurately) that he was principally recommending only a revision of scientific method: by prescinding from formal and final causality, the sciences are able to submit their conjectures to the verdict of empirical data alone. Properly understood, this should mean that the sciences, in order to move upon a very narrow path of experimental progress, must willingly forfeit any right to pronounce upon metaphysical or spiritual questions.
But, unfortunately, the mechanical philosophy soon ceased to be a matter merely of method and became instead a metaphysics in its own right, and so mistook itself for the one thing it can never possibly be: an exhaustive picture of reality. As a consequence, much of our culture has now been reduced to a condition of such savagery that educated persons really adhere to the degrading belief that the cosmos is indeed only a kind of machine.
Ours is what Heidegger called the time of technology, the “age of the world-picture,” in which all of nature has been “en-framed” as a reserve of inert resources awaiting exploitation by the will to power. The name we seem now to have settled on for this philosophy is “naturalism,” which comes in any number of reductionist forms (the most incoherent, absurd, and yet logically inevitable of which is called “eliminativism”).
There are two great problems with naturalism. The first is that it is obviously false, if for no other reason than it is radically incomplete as a philosophy of the whole of things.
The one thing that a naturalist view of reality cannot encompass is being itself, the very existence of nature; nature, by definition, is what already exists, and no investigation of its innate causes can penetrate the mystery of its ontological contingency. Thus naturalism is always surrounded and permeated and exceeded by that which is, quite literally, “super naturam”; and naturalism can be held as a philosophy only to the degree that one fails or scrupulously refuses to notice this surd of the supernatural, this ever deeper mystery behind and beyond all the lesser mysteries of natural order.
The second problem is that naturalism, being a false picture of things, is inevitably destructive of nature, both cosmic and human. I mean not only that the age of technology has, as we all know, given us the power to ruin the world about us with magnificent profligacy. I mean also that it makes it all but impossible for human beings to inhabit the natural world as participants in its gratuity, greatness, and enchantment. And this is rather tragic, because all of civilization—quite literally all of it—springs up in the space between mortals and the mystery of the divine within and beyond the things of earth.
But to find that space—that clearing in the forest—we must first consent to be servants, not simply masters. The works of our hands have to be the way in which we respond to the summons of the ever deeper mystery within things, born out of a primordial human capacity for wonder that never presumes to know more than it can know, and that never tries to determine in advance what may or may not reveal itself. And any deafness to this summons, or any arrogant forgetfulness of this mystery, is the deepest, most barbarous irrationality of all.
Or so I would argue, and with greater precision if this column were not already too long. But I have a journey to make this evening, and we must go for our daily walk in the woods before I leave. With any luck, we may catch a glimpse of a nymph or hamadryad, though I have no expectation that we will. Neither Patrick nor I can recall ever having seen one; and whatever Roland knows he keeps hidden in the fastness of his heart.
David B. Hart is a contributing writer of First Things. His most recent book is Atheist Delusions: The Christian Revolution and Its Fashionable Enemies (Yale University Press). His previous “On the Square” articles can be found here.
Comments:
By the way, everything he says here is true too, which makes it even better.
'Cause, despite a lot of looking, no good evidence for fairies and nature spirits has shown up, and so far we haven't needed them to account for the behavior of gardens and winds and forests?
I can't prove my safety deposit box at the bank *doesn't* contain a fortune in priceless rubies. But I imagine the bank would probably want to take a peek before they loaned me any money on that collateral...
God bless.
I've never found that to be so. The real world is simply *fascinating*. A rainbow is made of *billions* of tiny raindrops floating in the air, of just the right shape and size. When light hits at just the right angle, it's reflected - twice! - and refracted, revealing the subtle shades normally hidden in 'white' light. How is that *not* wonderful and enchanting? How would a leprechaun or a pot of gold improve it?
I don't find rainbows any less beautiful or amazing because I think they arise from 'mere' physical processes. I just have *more* respect for what 'mere' physical processes are capable of.
If you really *need* unknowns in your life, don't fret. We're in no danger of running out anytime soon - if ever. There's no need to reject what we *do* know to preserve a sense of mystery.
Wonderful how completely you kissed the point, along with the air of comedy in this piece: not unknowns, you poor deluded little elf, but the mystery of being that naturalism cannot encompass, at all, ever. There is nothing here that calls into question the wonder of the world--the real world, if you like. But that there is such a world, that light behaves in that way, is the first mystery that no science can penetrate, because it is the mystery that comes 'before nature'. And that means that we cannot know what might confront us in our experience of nature unexpectedly, and we have no right to assume our ancestors did not see many things far more clearly than we do.
And it seems to me pretty clear that the attitude of patient waiting, along with a refusal to confine the imagination within the tedious little orthodoxies of our age, is indeed the state of mind that allows for the creation of great art and great cultures.
Dr. Hart is quite right. Invoking fairies as an example of irrational belief is a conceptual error. It may be a mistake regarding facts, but is not an error of logic.
Anyway, though, poor Mr. Ingles, if you want to understand this piece, please note that the serious point being made is found in the paragraph that reads:
"A person who believes in fairies or in Thor may or may not be mistaken about certain finite objects within the cosmos; a person who believes in God may or may not be mistaken about being, the nature of existence itself, the logical possibility of any world, the moral meaning of the universe, and so on. The former kind of belief concerns facts of experience, the latter truths of reason, and to suggest that they occupy the same conceptual or existential space is either to confess one’s own stupidity or willfully to engage in cheap rhetorical thuggery."
Having established that, Hart then perversely veers off along another path, in order to make that same point again, but in a more whimsical way, and to make a point about how human creativity works. Try to follow the argument.
Oh, and his question is correct: What if there are fairies at the bottom of your garden? If you tell me there are, I have no scientific or logical basis for saying you are wrong. Fairies, not being the sorts of things that one finds with a spectrometer, might very well be the sort of beings one encounters at odd moments. So all I can do is try to judge how believable a witness you are. Assuming one knows more than one knows is the greatest, most misleading error of all.
Who has rejected what we *do* know? Not the author of this piece. He has, rather, pointed out what we do not know and ought not to think we do. That seems like a good prescription for sanity to me.
A rare leisurely day in the forest inspired this from me:
=Forest Friend=
Beautiful pines, in abundance. The one in front of me grandiose!
Still firmly rooted, yet bare. Her end is more apparent than the others.
One, two, or ten,
Her years to stand will meet their end.
She sings a praise of a particular sort.
Likely unknowing of such a song,
Yet without my doubting and disconnected belong.
The pine does not know the anguish of my soul,
my sorrow, my longing.
But then neither will she experience the sweat,
and crossing of peaks ahead.
Neither will the pine commune as the lover and the beloved.
You are grandiose and beautiful today, my tall forest friend.
Is this your last year, or do you have ten?
We are so different.
I of conscience and so verbose.
You; simple, silent, and steadfastly connected.
From your silence, you have spoken.
You proclaim the common ground on which we fall broken.
'Cause, despite a lot of looking, no good evidence for fairies and nature spirits has shown up, and so far we haven't needed them to account for the behavior of gardens and winds and forests?
That sort of makes Hart's point for him, doesn't it? I mean, if you think that all there is to nature is what explains its mechanical processes, then you have made an unwarranted leap. And if you think that way, the way you'll do your "lots of looking" is according to a method that is narrowly focused on efficient causes. That's fine, but it is liable to make you think you understand the whole just because you can trace the workings of some of the parts.
Of course, Hart spent a huge chunk of his article talking about unknowns. I'm quite aware of his allegations about the 'mystery of existence'... but I've discussed that elsewhere. I'm focusing on the very real and all-too-common notion that, because we don't know everything, we can't be sure of anything. To wit:
"And that means that we cannot know what might confront us in our experience of nature unexpectedly, and we have no right to assume our ancestors did not see many things far more clearly than we do."
I think Isaac Asimov said it best: "[W]hen people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was [perfectly] spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."
Quite seriously, I have a burning sense that the hegemony of fundamentalist materialism/naturalism has played itself out, and that the whole worldview has entered a crisis, and that a reenchanted view of things is asserting itself pretty forcefully throughout -- at least -- American culture. So your really exquisite articulation of the sides and the stakes is most appreciated.
Paige - "Invoking fairies as an example of irrational belief is a conceptual error."
But you miss my point. I didn't say that belief in fairies is a conceptual error, did I? Go check. I'll wait.
No, I gave an entirely different, orthogonal reason for thinking belief in faries irrational. Beliefs don't have to be conceptual errors to be irrational. It's not a conceptual error to think that the CIA - or fairies - organized 9/11. But treating either of them as live options, when positive evidence for both is equally absent... *that's* irrational.
Unlike theologians, political scientists, and a host of others who create knowledge, real scientists can’t use rhetoric to wiggle out of contradictions and errors. Their mistakes are right there for other scientists to see. And if they persist in their error, their colleagues will just ignore them and get back to the business of learning more about how the world actually works.
Yes, science can’t see the world as a whole, and when it comes to morality, it has no wisdom to offer at all. But I know too many people who have rejected both Christianity and science and believe instead in fairies, mere enchantment, and astrology. I’m more than ready to see this New Age nonsense give way to simpler and more rational forms of wonder.
It’s a lovely autumn day today, and this morning, with the sky so sharply blue, I called my wife onto the front porch to gaze on the moon directly overhead, a nearly blazing white fruit so close we could see its craters like bruises. I was pleased to share a hug on the porch before we went back inside to hustle the kids into their clothes, and I’m grateful that men in lab coats and women in safari gear are stepping into the world today to practice one of the great disciplines of humankind.
Some people see mysteries and want to solve them. Some don't. But take care not to dehumanize the former, to imagine they don't feel awe and wonder. I've stood on moountains before and been awed, humbled, amazed. However, I was also intrigued. You don't have to feel the latter, but I don't feel guilty about feeling it.
From Roger Zelazny's 'Lord of Light':
"Then the one called Raltariki is really a demon?" asked Tak.
"Yes--and no," said Yama, "If by 'demon' you mean a malefic, supernatural creature, possessed of great powers, life span and the ability to temporarily assume virtually any shape--then the answer is no. This is the generally accepted definition, but it is untrue in one respect."
"Oh? And what may that be?"
"It is not a supernatural creature."
"But it is all those other things?"
"Yes."
"Then I fail to see what difference it makes whether it be supernatural or not--so long as it is malefic, possesses great powers and life span and has the ability to change its shape at will."
"Ah, but it makes a great deal of difference, you see. It is the difference between the unknown and the unknowable, between science and fantasy--it is a matter of essence. The four points of the compass be logic, knowledge, wisdom and the unknown. Some do bow in that final direction. Others advance upon it. To bow before the one is to lose sight of the three. I may submit to the unknown, but never to the unknowable."
Some people see mysteries and want to solve them. Some don't. But take care not to dehumanize the former, to imagine they don't feel awe and wonder. I've stood on moountains before and been awed, humbled, amazed. However, I was also intrigued. You don't have to feel the latter, but I don't feel guilty about feeling it.
From Roger Zelazny's 'Lord of Light':
"Then the one called Raltariki is really a demon?" asked Tak.
"Yes--and no," said Yama, "If by 'demon' you mean a malefic, supernatural creature, possessed of great powers, life span and the ability to temporarily assume virtually any shape--then the answer is no. This is the generally accepted definition, but it is untrue in one respect."
"Oh? And what may that be?"
"It is not a supernatural creature."
"But it is all those other things?"
"Yes."
"Then I fail to see what difference it makes whether it be supernatural or not--so long as it is malefic, possesses great powers and life span and has the ability to change its shape at will."
"Ah, but it makes a great deal of difference, you see. It is the difference between the unknown and the unknowable, between science and fantasy--it is a matter of essence. The four points of the compass be logic, knowledge, wisdom and the unknown. Some do bow in that final direction. Others advance upon it. To bow before the one is to lose sight of the three. I may submit to the unknown, but never to the unknowable."
What makes you think your orthogonal approach is at all coherent? Or relevant? Quite apart from the fact that there have been legions of persons (of variable trustworthiness perhaps) who have reported spiritual encounters (and there is no reason to discount personal reports), that was not the issue here.
Try to get the point. The mistake at issue was the claim that science had proved the nonexistence of forest spirits, or was competent to do so. That, you see, is the primary error that shows that people who invoke scientific explanation often do not understand its limits. Whether there are forest gods or not was not addressed in this essay. What was addressed was the superstitious belief that a very narrow but fruitful set of scientific methodological principles have actually revealed to us the metaphysical structure of reality. Only a deeply deceived sort of chap thinks that because we understand photosynthesis we have therefore 'disproved' dryads. And that was the point.
Michael,
Your ignorance of theologians is no less astonishing than your ignorance of scientists.
I grew up in a scientific family (physicists) and in the world of the sciences, and if you think science is all that honest, you're off your nut. Guild journals routinely suppress papers that advance unpopular theories, scientists regularly take money in order to advance fruitless research and produce shady results (think of the East Anglia scandal), ideological cliques struggle to discredit one another, and a great many scientists are so confused about the dividing line between real science and ludicrous speculation that we end up with thousands of pages of pseudo-science pouring from the presses, produced by the likes of Dan Dennett, Steve Pinker, and even now (shockingly) S. Hawking Esq. (unless you really think M Theory is a corrigible or falsifiable or verifiable form of science). Evolutionary psychology, sociology, and language theory are wonderful examples of this sort of vapid trash. Science is only really honest when it remains content to recognize how very little it really can establish.
Most of the better theologians I've read, by the way, are fairly severe and rigidly logical dialecticians. For the most part, they seem far better able to make or follow a logical argument than most of the people I know trained in the sciences.
Are you kidding? You are, right? Political scientists? You actually think they create knowledge, or that they are engaged in a real science in any sense AT ALL?
Sigh... We really do live in an age of superstition.
Philosophically trained theologians are often quite able to make actual arguments, and to reason from premises to conclusions. Political scientists are less respectable intellectually than the fortune tellers at a fair.
And I've met very few people in the real science who are all that good at logical argument, to be honest. Richard Dawkins's total philosophical ineptitude is not the exception, but the rule as far as I can tell.
what if there are fairies at the bottom of one’s garden? Or, more precisely, what the hell is so irrational in believing there are or might be?
The answer to the first question is: because if there are, then the world is quite literally one hell of a place. Dr. Hart knows the classical heritage quite as well as anyone might. And so I know he knows that the daimones of the ancient world became the demons of the Christian faith. That he can view the possibility of fairies at the bottom of the well with nonchalance is only due to the Christian demystification of the world—a process that he later mocks as having been described “misleading[ly]”.
He is thus making the same mistake as the neo-pagans of our age, now from the side of a putative Christian intellectual inheritance: assuming that the accomplishments of Christian culture have been internalized to that culture, and, having been completed, one can now dispense with the spiritual power that generated that inheritance.
Secondly, there is nothing "irrational" in believing that fairies might be at the bottom of the well. There is something profoundly disturbing to kerygma of Christian morality: we are saved through the power of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, living out his life and moral wholeness in and through us. If fairies are truly at the bottom of the well, then I might be seduced into thinking that they have something to offer me, that their power can in some small way offer me compensation to the tedium and frustration of my mortal, fleshly, existence.
Several paragraphs later, he attempts to justify his wish that fairies once more appear at the bottom of his well. “The author of Colossians even seems to say that they have now been reconciled to God.” He says no such thing. What he says is: “And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he [Christ] made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross (2:15, NIV).” They have been humiliated (like an enemy chief humiliated before a hostile citizenry) and deprived of their power.
As a teacher of mythology and religion, I take the existential verity and power of the daimones very seriously. But as a Christian, I do not want them showing their faces again.
We have been seduced by the fiction of Tolkien and C. S. Lewis. We forget that both authors wrote at the end of an English Christendom. The English might have momentarily sanctified their fairies, but their apparent loveliness is an artifact of the gospel that surrounded them for a thousand years. That gospel has now been ripped away. It is no accident that the elves of LOTR are tall—as if resuming their ancient stature before disclosing their “uncrucified” visage. Yet even Lewis’ fiction (esp. That Hideous Strength), as well as the ending of LOTR, made very clear that there is no going back to a world in which a young Christianity and an old paganism co-existed uneasily.
The elves have gone into the west, and for our sake we had better hope they do not return. (Actually of course, they have already returned at least once--in the Germanic neopaganism of Hitler.) So I should more properly say, let us hope they do not return again--although that too is already a vain hope. But as they return, let us be prepared to name them by their true name.
Having gone through the demystification of the world of the daimones by Christianity, and its bastard child empirical science, there is no going back. We cannot revitalize our spiritual world by reenergizing those powers. They have a mind of their own, and, as they are being released from the authority of the cross of Jesus Christ that binds them, are aggressively seeking a renewed hegemony.
That Hart seems to think that a remystification of the world would redound to the efficacy of the gospel, and to the benefit of the church of Jesus Christ, suggests to me that there is at least a mote in his eyes’ vision of truth.
I only have enough grasp of "all of this", to gasp; "Hmm, dwl seems to have something there." Do you have a blogspot? Are you published beyond "the com-box?"
Why so rude? Do you have to assume that I am “astonishing” in my “ignorance” or that I’m “off my nut”? Or can you be more charitable and imagine a more informed interlocutor? Do you have to smear so much bile across the autumnal scene Hart painted?
Nevertheless, you’re right that science can be all of the things that you listed. I had some of my own qualifications in my first post, but yours are good and well taken. Still, I think your conclusion that “science is only really honest when it remains content to recognize how very little it really can establish” illustrates my point. Lots of scientists object to how science is often practiced, and they call out the Dennetts, Pinkers, Hawkings, etc.
But when scientists call out other scientists, they say, “Show me the data,” which is its way of bringing their colleagues back to earth and back to what you call the “little that can be established.” Science is a discipline in a more rigorous way than other disciplines such as theology and political science.
Yes, good theologians can be great dialecticians, but I was comparing professions/disciplines, not individual theologians. There’s nothing about the profession or discipline of theology that requires it to be logical, a fact readily apparent in much theological writing. When theologians disagree, they can argue back to foundational assumptions and then the conversation must end there. Science always has in addition the stubborn presence of data, facts. Finally, when I go to theology, I’m more interested in finding wisdom and insight than I am in logic, though logic certainly helps!
In a day when I meet so many people who have more faith in their horoscope than they do in science, I want to celebrate the real gains of science. I crave the experience of wonder, but I also crave the honest inquisitiveness of science.
I’m not at all interested, however, in being your punching bag.
No, I wasn’t kidding. There are some good political scientists out there, people with real insight into how politics operate or who have studied what motivates people to act. You can start with Aristotle and Machiavelli, Jefferson and Tocqueville. I’d be surprised if there weren’t some modern political scientist you admire, but it sounds like you’re thinking about the people who predict elections. What makes them better than “fortune tellers” is they are creating models and testing theories.
No, I don’t think political scientists create “real knowledge” in the sense that natural scientists do. In fact, my original sentence distinguished between people who create knowledge such as theologians and political scientists and “real scientists,” by which I meant people in the natural sciences.
I can’t agree that political scientists “are less respectable intellectually.” They have their own discipline. From the perspective of the natural sciences, political science is built on less solid ground than but then so is theology.
I respect the political scientists I know, even when I’m skeptical of their theories and models, and I know some very smart scientists.
There are good reasons to be skeptical of particular scientists and particular scientific theories, to be skeptical of particular theologians and particular theologies, and to be skeptical of particular political scientists and particular theories from political science, but I am dismayed by the way American culture seems to be progressively cynical toward any discipline that claims to have knowledge, whether it be theology, science, or political science.
The great positivist fallacy is to impose one conceptual method, appropriate to one realm of reality, on all other realms of reality. And if this does not generate results explicable by the method, then instead of concluding that the method is inadequate, positivism chooses to deny the reality of these other realms.
"Christianity, with its cry of 'no other god,' had a considerable part in giving birth to the nihilism of contemporary culture. The gospel shook the ancient world to its foundations, tore down the heavens, and in just this way helped to bring about the ruin of the present moment."
Thus Hart, in his justly acclaimed essay on "Christ and Nothing." And this seems to express the a thought similar to dwl's "The elves have gone into the west, and for our sake we had better hope they do not return."
Perhaps Hart believes that we can live in an enchanted world, so long as we recognize that all supernatural forces have been subjugated to Christ, and that to Him alone redounds their glory, and that we will not know how to properly admire the more numinous bits of creation until we know that God alone is worthy of worship. Perhaps there's a way to strike a compromise according to which we can banish the idols from the Pantheon and leave the hamadryads in the woods. I suppose it's also possible that Hart may have modified the view expressed in "Christ and Nothing."
But I wish Hart, or someone of his erudition and understanding, would shed some light on this matter. I'm susceptible to the appeal both of the purity of the Gospel and of the uberty of an enchanted nature -- and I don't see how I can reconcile the two.
Thanks.
When time permits--mostly when I am free from the burdens of adjunct teaching in the summer--I guest-post elsewhere on one of the FT blogs.
To Kevin Gallagher:
I agree with your observation of the apparent disagreement between "Christ and Nothing" and the present piece.
I have reached the point that I will state unequivocally that one cannot have both Jesus Christ, AND "the hamadryads in the woods." I understand the yearning. I have read LOTR more times than I can count, and Lewis' fictional works again and again. But the Christian England of Tolkien and Lewis is gone. And we will wait in vain for Arthur to return.
That theme supplies an interesting counterpoint to Ray Ingles' skepticism: what if the issue is not that we don't have evidence that fairies exist, but that we wouldn't know them if we saw them? I agree with those who are dissatisfied with Mr. Ingles' argument that a lack of empirical evidence should close the issue. On the other hand, I can't dismiss his skepticism out of hand because I (and apparently Dr. Hart as well) really don't expect to see fairies when I go for a walk in the garden. I think it's important to make that distinction; I don't find Mr. Ingles' reasons convincing, but I have to admit he has the imaginary high ground.
I suspect that the problem is not the lack of evidence but of imagination. I can study ancient societies and see that there were times when it was normal to hold such beliefs. So normal, in fact, and so pervasive among the educated and uneducated, the rich and the poor, the wise and the stupid that it seems frustratingly simplistic to believe that they were all dupes, all so willful that they couldn't accept the inefficacy of their rituals and the fiction of their gods.
That suggests to me that in order to evaluate these ancient claims, I have first to admit that they have something I do not, and then to work to comprehend what exactly that is. For me, at least, this has turned out to be difficult task, and a reason to exercise the mind with both history and art. (It's also a good reason to read Gene Wolfe, whom I recommend to you all.)
As I pointed out with my quote of Asimov, one doesn't have to have revealed *the* metaphysical structure of reality to have shown that many other proposed structures are wrong.
"What was addressed was the superstitious belief that a very narrow but fruitful set of scientific methodological principles have actually revealed to us the metaphysical structure of reality. Only a deeply deceived sort of chap thinks that because we understand photosynthesis we have therefore 'disproved' dryads. And that was the point."
I'm perfectly okay with saying that science has no more disproved dryads than it has disproved homeopathic water memory or a hollow Earth.
Sorry if I seemed rude. Britishisms, I assure you, meant without malice.
dwl,
Tosh. You're accusing Hart of mistakes he doesn't make. He neither says there are such things as fairies or wishes for them. He says only that it is superstitious to believe that the modern empirical sciences, with their limited scope, could possibly have disproved them. I find your remarks disturbing and silly, however. I have no real interest in the cosmological absolutism of Evangelicals, but Christians existed for many centuries with Christ and fairies without it causing them to forget who was who. Your version of Christianity is just that: yours. Generations of faithful Christians, who lived exemplary lives of faith, saw reality differently. Ever read Rev. Kirk's Secret Commonwealth? Who are you, mate, to say who can and cannot have Christ, and under what conditions?
And, by the way, I know which verse of Colossians Hart is citing, and I'm not even a Christian. Do you own a Bible?
Ray,
You prove my point yet again. Science CAN disprove the hollow earth theory or homeopathic water memory. Homeopathy is, after all, just bad science. Science cannot disprove the reality of vital spiritual intelligences in or beyond nature, because it has no method for doing so. If there are such intelligences, however, individuals might encounter them. So why imagine in advance that one knows what one cannot know? And is everyone who claims to have experienced numinous things either demented or a liar in your book? I've met a few who struck me as eminently credible.
Excuse me if I seem to be attacking you. But, no, I'm sorry, I know too much about political science to treat it as an empirical field. If you had spoken of chemistry or physics, I'd have followed your point (though I'd have disagreed with the way you stated it). But political science doesn't make the cut.
dwl,
I can unequivocally state that you do not know what you're talking about. By your argument, most ancient and medieval Christians, from Syria to Ethiopia to the Mediterranean across Europe to Ireland did not "have Jesus Christ." The same with a huge number of modern Christians. Well, yes they did and yes they do. Dreary fundamentalism is your spiritual burden, but you should keep it to yourself.
Oh, and its Colossians 1:16-20.
Andrew,
Stop arguing with Ray. He doesn't understand what you're saying or what Hart is saying, and he's obviously the prisoner of a horribly limited concept of knowledge. Just pity him.
You make one error, though, when you state "this column [is] already too long". In fact the article ended too quickly, leaving me stuck back in the city with no forest immediately available.
A year or two ago I saw a book by nobody I knew called "An Illustrated History of Christianity". I picked it up but then thought, "na, it's probably another hatchet job", and put it down. I only realized recently that that was your book, and I am now actively looking for a copy or two. (Borders doesn''t have it in-store anymore.)
I have already ordered your "Atheist Delusions" from Amazon. Can't get enough DBH!
(2) On Colossians 1:16-20: the question is precisely how the reconciliation takes place. Colossians 1 is eschatological and generic: final victory lies at the consummation. Colossians 2 speaks to the process through which the eschatological victory BEGINS to unfold: “all powers” are reconciled to God because they have been subjected to the cross. They must continue to be crucified, lest they raise their rebellious heads again: Colossians 2. No ch. 1 without ch. 2. And here I thought that it was “fundamentalists” who were guilty of proof-texting.
(3) To the charge that I have delegitimated the faith of earlier generations of Christians. I never said that it is wrong for past Christians to believe in fairies. I said that Christians TODAY can no longer believe in fairies, both because of empirical science, and because the spiritual world in which such beings might have autonomous spiritual power is gone forever. It has been removed from our gaze. We have no authority—from philosophy, science, learning, or theology—to bring it back.
Medieval Christian scholars were active believers in and practitioners of alchemical and astrological SCIENCES. I have no qualms about their eternal destiny, even while I affirm that any Christian TODAY who actively practices these same occult arts is in peril of eternal damnation.
Even Lewis makes this point in That Hideous Strength narratively: the arts that were available to Christians 1000 years are no longer. We seek to regain knowledge and power at our peril.
The forests are also enchanted, magical places. we humans seem drawn to them, and their beauty. Can science explain their appeal to us? Perhaps, on one level, but on a phemenological level, no. When I experience the thrill, of walking through a forest, there's no doubt a parade of neuronal firings, and neurotransmitters squeezed out of nerve endings to create the joy, that this experience entails. But can the neural fireworks explain the fireworks of beauty that I experience seeing, smelling and hearing the enchanted forests?
When one walks in the forest, alone, one hears the nearby river flow, the birds talking and signing. The smell of flowers. a small deer, nearby, enjoying her nap. even the sensation of stillness and quite. All of these experiences cannot be reduced to pure neural physiology. These experiences unite to form the beauty, that is part of God.
So you'd think. But then a bit later on, you say:
"And is everyone who claims to have experienced numinous things either demented or a liar in your book? I've met a few who struck me as eminently credible."
I've encountered eminently credible people who attribute the restoration of their health to homeopathy, too. Do you think everyone who claims to believe in homeopathy is either demented or a liar in your book?
Hummm.
As for R. Ingles, note that he thinks the whole issue is whether or not one need to believe in fairies to explain the behavior of plants. Of course not, and no one suggested as much. That, however, is not the exhaustive index of what counts as knowledge, experience, or reality. The issue is whether or not we are so stupid that we think that, because we know how photosynthesis occurs in chemical terms, we also can "prove" that there are no spiritual mysteries here as well. Since the whole of nature is bounded by the most impenetrable of mysteries, the being of beings, which naturalism cannot explain and which shows naturalism to be inadequate, the only wise course is not to preclude the possibility that a) our ancestors might have been right about the spiritual world, and we have lost their insight, and b) the deeper truth within nature, if it is there, may show itself to us at unexpected moments, if we are not too prejudiced by a superstitious scientism to see it. Short form: empirical science is fruitful but necessarily narrow in its focus; reality is bigger than what it can see; there are other avenues of knowledge that are not only as valid, but perhaps more so; and there cannot be a conflict between the sciences and these other forms of knowledge, because they do not operate upon the same kinds of objects.
But Mr Ingles is only a victim of the darkness of our times. Mr. dwl is in a far worse state, because he is the prisoner not only of an arid dogmatism, but of a basic historical mistake. He mentions C.S. Lewis and Tolkien as though they were the only sources of what I'd call "benign Christian polypsychism." Throughout Christian history, eminently respectable thinkers have had no problem with the idea of subsidiary intelligent agents in nature, perhaps fallen with the rest of creation, but not just devils either. Maybe when there was a pitched battle between pagan and Christian cosmologies, daemons became demons; but Christian history goes on from there. Think of, oh, Ficino, or Bernardus Silvestris, or Milton, or the Rev. Kirk. Think of all those generations of ancients, medievals, and early moderns who found no conflict whatever between believing in the total cosmic lordship of Christ and the presence of other spiritual agencies within nature, neither angel nor demons, but simply part of the elemental powers. And think of the author of Colossians naming all the powers in heaven and on earth (angelic and elemental powers, that means, not human governments) and saying they have been reconciled through Christ. Now it may all be mythology, and certainly Dr. Hart never suggests there actually are wood gods or fairies; but absolutely none of it is unchristian, if the tradition is to be taken seriously. Mr dwl has simply fastened onto an apocalyptically extreme version of what he takes to be the Christian message, and he could not be more tragically confused.
Well, I don't know about homeopathy. I assume it makes claims of a biochemical kind, which are the sorts of claims the empirical sciences can investigate. And presumably one could do statistical studies on rates of recovery using homeopathic remedies. So science can pronounce upon homeopathy, even if it cannot necessarily do so with total comprehensiveness. So, whatever you say, that means that homeopathy still falls within the category of what is empirically testable.
A spirit who may choose to show itself to a wanderer in the woods, however, or anything of that sort, does not fall into that category. Here the only means of knowing true from false (and imperfectly at that) are personal experience, personal testimony, rational reflection, and imaginative sympathy. Maybe mystical discipline would help. Whatever the case, the two sorts of claims still occupy different logical spaces. So what Dr Hart is saying is obviously correct, and what you're saying obviously (and consistently) misses the point. I don't know why you don't get this. All good scientists know when to say, 'We have nothing to say on that matter.' The author of the school text that Dr Hart's son had read did not know when to say that, and Dr Hart was right to warn his son against such irrationalism and barbarous superstition.
"I don't find rainbows any less beautiful or amazing because I think they arise from 'mere' physical processes. I just have *more* respect for what 'mere' physical processes are capable of."
"Beauty", "amazement" and "respect" are not scientifically verifiable concepts, any more than leprechauns. But if you somehow feel a need to hang on to such unknowns, that is your business.
So the spiritual world is all subject to Christ according to the New Testament, then. OK. But that means it's still there. As for your contentions that empirical science has something to tell us about it now and that we are not allowed to think we have a way of interacting with that world now, both are false: the former because it is a logical error, as shown above, and the latter because you are illogically presuming that one can only interact with such a world if it has some "autonomous" power.
Anyway, you're wrong. If it was OK for a medieval peasant to meet a fairy in the woods, its OK for a modern Christian to do so as well. Just because we have closed off some of our subtler senses by consorting with today's magic (scientism) doesn't mean the real world isn't out there ready to welcome us back. Especially if whatever spiritual agencies may or may not be out there have been tamed and put in check by Christ.
Oh, and keep talk of eternal damnation to yourself, you sad man. If you think God is so vicious a brute that he would condemn anyone to eternal suffering for having a passing conversation with a Nereid or Elf, then you have serious spiritual problems to work out in private.
“What all three have in common is that they seem to think this essay has something to do with the question of whether or not there are fairies or wood spirits or whatever,…”
So Dr. Hart is allowed to express complex theological insights in metaphor, but I’m not? I respond that attempting to answer Hart's question in Hart's way--the remystification of creation--creates new problems, indeed, in my judgment: *at this time* serious problems for the integrity of the Christian kerygma.
Again, let me explicitly state why that is: either these "other spiritual agencies within nature" are "real" or metaphorical. If they are "real," and if they are allowed to maintain spiritual independence, then they will seek to regain their ancient autonomy over against the Creator.
Indeed: *they have done so* (e.g., Hitler) and *are doing so* (e.g., astrology, Feng Shui).
Secondly, if they are metaphorical, why would Christians want an alternative mythos? What is gained by repeating ancient myths? Myths are narratives: a different way of telling the story of the world, over against *logos*, the supposedly logical explanation of the structures of reality.
The truly astonishing paradox here is that given Dr. Hart's sophisticated theology work (I have read his THE BEAUTY OF THE INFINITE), now he needs a mythos alongside of it. Why then an ancient pagan mythos, one that was conquered by the cross, one that died when the Delphic oracle fell silent?
Another part of this paradox is that if logos itself it not enough, then the claims of philosophy to give answers to the mysteries of existence become suspect. Then why should I credit Hart's assertion that "being, the nature of existence itself, the logical possibility of any world, the moral meaning of the universe" are "truths of reason"? *That* very claim depends on the validity of Plato's enterprise, and that in turn hangs on whether Plato was justified in rejecting mythos in favor of logos.
“Mr. dwl is in a far worse state, because he is the prisoner not only of an arid dogmatism, but of a basic historical mistake.”
I have made very clear that there is a fundamental difference IN THE CONTINUUM OF TIME between allowing, say, Ficino to believe in “the presence of other spiritual agencies” and allowing contemporary Christians to do likewise.
So who is the one making the “basic historical mistake”?
Furthermore: “think of all those generations of ancients, medievals, and early moderns who found no conflict whatever between believing in the total cosmic lordship of Christ and the presence of other spiritual agencies within nature,...."
How do I say this more clearly?
I DO NOT DOUBT THAT SUCH AGENCIES EXIST.
I doubt that any contemporary Christian is wise or justified in seeking to know about them, to understand them, to desire or attempt in any way to manipulate them, or to seek anything other than their complete subjection to Jesus Christ.
I have already addressed the Colossians text.
“Mr dwl has simply fastened onto an apocalyptically extreme version….” I gave up my early adolescent apocalypticism with my Biblicism, again, 40 years ago.
Apparently you didn't notice that I wrote: "Of course, Hart spent a huge chunk of his article talking about unknowns. I'm quite aware of his allegations about the 'mystery of existence'... but I've discussed that elsewhere. I'm focusing on the very real and all-too-common notion that, because we don't know everything, we can't be sure of anything."
You write, "The issue is whether or not we are so stupid that we think that, because we know how photosynthesis occurs in chemical terms, we also can "prove" that there are no spiritual mysteries here as well."
Sure... but "you can't prove there isn't" is a terribly low bar to set, don't you think? In the essay I linked to, it was noted: "...what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all?"
Hart asks, "...what the hell is so irrational in believing there are or might be [fairies]"? I answered, in essence, that believing in something without adequate evidence for it is irrational. And when dealing with elephants or tiny winged humans... absence of evidence eventually becomes evidence of absence.
And, of course, technically I don't know about fairies. Are we talking about tiny winged humans? I mean, the word 'fairies' means something, right? Given a specific theory, then science *can* say something about. It can certainly put upper bounds on the population of such creatures, etc. etc.
"A spirit who may choose to show itself to a wanderer in the woods, however, or anything of that sort, does not fall into that category."
Sure... but how is it supposed to show itself? What phenomena are we supposed to be looking for? Absent any specifics, all you're saying is "we don't know everything yet".
The fact that that doesn't come as a surprise to me may come as a surprise to you. But knowing that we are certainly wrong about some things doesn't mean we know we are wrong about any specific thing. And assuming we are, until and unless evidence contradicts this, is indeed irrational.
However precious Hart may be, I still think he'd shuffle a little nervously if his neighbor claimed to *really* believe in fairies.
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2009/07/the-gnostic-turn/david-b-hart
First Things seems to want columns to be shorter and hacked up into smaller pieces now. The earlier piece is much more a complete essay, written in Hart's most typical style.
Better understanding of the spiritual realms in our times in The Church can be seen as a result of her being tended on to higher , purer grounds ..this in turn, to give caution to those who want to disregard all that is not considered as 'tradition' from old ..or those who want to embrace some 'traditions' of old, in the name of inculturation , which inturn could lead into dangerous realms , to incapacitate The Church !
Might even be possible too , to get some understanding of how such undercurrents have led to the vigor or lack thereof of the Church at various times !
One can still (how could a rational, informed person not?) wholly accept the findings of empirical science, without eliminating the enchantment, mystery, and miraculous, from nature. Paradoxically, to try and eliminate these things, is not a warranted extrapolation, to make, from the scientific evidence.
"The truly astonishing paradox here is that given Dr. Hart's sophisticated theology work (I have read his THE BEAUTY OF THE INFINITE), now he needs a mythos alongside of it. Why then an ancient pagan mythos, one that was conquered by the cross, one that died when the Delphic oracle fell silent?"
What the hell are you talking about, man? Where did he say that he desires an additional mythos? The point was about the stupid remark in a text book that science could disprove wood spirits. You keep reading things into this essay that aren't there.
Oh, and rubbish about Plato. Plato used both logos and mythos together, inseparably.
Anyway, your remarks remain totally unconvincing, because they DO reflect a modern protestant understanding of the implications of the New Testament, one not shared by most previous generations of European or Near Eastern Christians. And your remarks on the texts from Colossians are also less than compelling.
Ray Ingles writes:
"Absent any specifics, all you're saying is "we don't know everything yet"."
Thus proving, miraculously, that he STILL does not get the point. Maybe he drinks heavily. By saying "yet" you still imply that this question could ever, under any circumstances, be a subject of empirical scientific research. As for "what evidence"--well, the evidence of direct experience corroborated by others with similar experiences, if such beings happen to meet one. That would be very good evidence indeed.
And, actually, I don't think Dr Hart would be worried at all by a neighbor claiming there are fairies in his garden. I have met the man on a few occasions, seeking help on French phenomenology rather than hamadryads I admit, but I think I can say for certain that his flamboyant eccentricity is such that only a dreary materialist can annoy him. If his neighbor made such a claim, I expect he'd go look to see for himself.
But I don't care, because dwl's version of Christianity bores me entirely. I've read Beauty of the Infinite too, and agree it's brilliant, and I don't see any way in which it is in conflict with anything Hart says here. I expect he would go along with John of Damascus and say that deified saints are the 'gods' of Christian belief; but I don't see how that precludes the possibility of essentially tamed and benign spirits hanging around ancient groves. The issue doesn't come up.
I'm also not sure what happened between Ficino and me that makes it licit for him to believe in a genius loci or two but a matter of my eternal salvation if I dare to do the same. Science hasn't taught us anything about the spiritual dimension of the natural world that Ficino didn't know--it can't.
Anyway, I'm sticking with the Cambridge Platonists, Clement of Alexandria, Martianus Capella, Bernard Sylvester, Paracelsus, Robert Kirk, and the rest. And with Hart's good friend John Milbank, a theologian who claims he does believe in fairies.
As for Ray Ingles, why does Mr. Lyttle keep arguing with him? If Ray can't get his mind around the simple point being made here, then stop trying to make him. He DOESN'T GET IT. It's over his head, or outside his ken, or in a language he's never learned. No matter how often you tell him what the essay is actually saying, he will continue to make the same hermeneutical mistake over and over again. No matter how often you tell him that, if there are spiritual agencies in nature, the evidence that would count would be personal experience or credible testimony, he will continue to say that you are talking about belief without evidence (because, you see, he can only imagine one sort of evidence). It's pointless. He cannot be convinced. He needs an awakening, and that comes only by grace.
Feng Shui is a philosophy of interior decorating, with a sugar-dusting of Taoist metaphysics of chi and balance. It hardly deserves to get mentioned along with the Nazis. I also think it's about as spiritually dangerous as a coconut cake.
I don't know what all this stuff is about independence of spiritual agencies. Who ever suggested that? And I don't know what this business is about Hart seeking a supplemental mythos. Where on earth did you get that?
Anyway, if Christ has subdued the powers, then excessive fear of them would seem to be uncalled for.
But rather than looking for "spirits" per se in Nature though - rather than being a typical Irish Catholic expecting not only God, but also specifically fairies - why not speak of say, "predispositions" or structures in Nature? A kind of invisible ... series of spirits... or invisible STRUCTURES.
To personify these structures as if they are invisible little semi-human figures, might be more engaging and cute and anthropomorphic; but that would be far, far less accurate.
First, thanks for telling us about yourself in the name you have assumed for these discussions. I'd hate to think you were an inhuman person, or perhaps a wood sprite.
Second, did anyone suggest one should go out looking for fairies? I didn't notice it if someone did. All I saw was an article about not mistaking pseudo-scientific arrogance for genuine scientific knowledge, and about remaining open to the mysteries which may lie beyond the thin slice of reality that Baconian method gives us access to, and which might put in appearance or two if they're there.
Third, how do you know what is or is not accurate in this matter? Maybe it is not the case that abstract structures have been mythically personified, and maybe real preternatural persons should not be clumsily turned into abstractions.
Fourth, that's not what this essay was about.
Granted, we know that there are many malevolent spiritual entities roaming about, not yet sealed in their final imprisonment. And these are certainly capable of impersonating "angels of light" and leading gullible humans astray. But I don't see how assenting to either (a) the materialist presumption that there are no such things or (b) the absolutist suspicion that all spirits are evil helps us to make proper decisions about them.
Indeed, the latter seems to have led to the former, and not, I think, without design. It's a short step from, "We must not ever consort with spirits, or even think about them," to, "There are no such things as spirits". And this latter proposition harms us both ways: we are deprived from the companionship kind and good spirits might give us in our Christian life, and we permit the malign spirits who are our enemies to move among us unseen and unopposed. One might imagine that a powerful spirit who does indeed intend us harm could have planned such a thing himself.
And dwl, as you have written, you may take what I have written as literally or as metaphorically as you wish.
Asserting that belief in Thor and belief in God are different categories is incredibly insulting. It may come as a shock to Dr. Hart, but other cultures took their myths as seriously as he does his. The God of Christianity was not, for most of history, the "ineffable ground of being," but rather a distinct and tangible entity not unlike Zeus. So Dr. Hart is not only insulting the majority of all humans who have ever lived, he is also insulting the majority of Christians who ever lived and had the temerity to think that the "literal truth of the Bible" meant it was literally true (God has a face; it has been seen, once).
Second, Dr. Hart simply misses the point. The reason science has dispensed with gods and fairies is because they are not necessary. You could do addition and subtraction with an extra million - always adding in a million at the beginning of the sum, and then subtracting out a million just before the final step - and still come up with the right answer. But why would you? Why carry around that baggage when it doesn't help get the answer? As Laplace said, "Sire, I have no need of that hypothesis." The fact that it is possible to explain nature - even the nature of human subjective experience - purely in mechanistic, empirical terms is the best possible reason to dispense with the unneeded baggage of the supernatural. In fact, it's the only logical reason to do so.
The third point is to a commentator in the thread: if interferometers and microscopes can't see it, then neither can you. All of these scientific instruments use the same physics to detect the world as you do. Except all of them do it better. I am not saying that anything undetectable by science does not exist; I am saying that anything undetectable by scientific instruments is undetectable by human senses.
"Even in your world, my son, that is not what a star is, but only what it is made of."
Not necessary for what, exactly?
"The fact that it is possible to explain nature - even the nature of human subjective experience - purely in mechanistic, empirical terms is the best possible reason to dispense with the unneeded baggage of the supernatural."
"Explain" how, exactly? And to whom? And why?
And what makes it "baggage"? Why would we desire to find a reason to throw away something beautiful?
I speak as one who once loved the idea of fairies, Tinkerbell included, and who lived in the world of fiction, preferring it to the painful reality of my young life. Fantasy is a dangerous and dark place to hide. Many youth and adults escape unhappy lives into the new technological unrealities...with addictive, destructive and even deadly results. You know about the school shootings resulting from violent and occult computer games...but did you know the obsession with cyber games has caused adults to kill or starve infants as was recently reported in the news?
Thanks for the reassurance. I’m glad there was no malice. I’m disappointed that you didn’t then continue the conversation.
Thanks. I don’t feel like you’re attacking me. You’ve been civil throughout. At least to me.
I’m not sure what you mean when you say that political science is not an “empirical field.” If you mean that political science fails to be empirical in the way that biology, chemistry, and the other natural sciences are empirical, then we are in complete agreement. As I said in my original post, I think the natural sciences pursue knowledge very differently from the way theology and political science pursue knowledge. What I like about the natural sciences is that their empiricism allows scientists to correct each other in ways that other pursuits cannot.
She is sadly mistaken in a number of ways, and - with whatever laudibly good intentions - generalizes sweepingly with regrettable carelessness (and tendentiousness).
For example, the "phoenix" and - if we may place them under her "etc." - "fauns" certainly in a very significant sense "are [...] Scriptural", if we include translations recognized variously as authoritative. Consider the "phoenix" of Septuagint Psalm 91:13 (= Masoretic 92:13). Is it the tree, or the bird? Tertullian thought the bird, in his defence of the Resurrection, and he has not been alone. St. Jerome, looking to the Hebrew, translated as tree, but that was not the end of the story in the West, as can be seen from the excellent online edition of Browne's 'Pseudodoxia Epidemica' at
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/pseudodoxia/pseudo312.html
Anyone who read the Vulgate, during the past 1600 years of the Church's history, would find the faun in Jeremiah 50:39. In Isaiah 13:21 and 34:14 it reads "pelosi" - so it is not certain if the 'hairy beings' intended are fauns or not: they certainly are, in the King James version!
St. Jerome's 'Life of Paul(us) the Hermit' presents enduringly interesting matter in chapters 7-8 - conveniently translated at
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3008.htm
Whether the centaur St. Anthony encountered was a kakodemonic deception or not, is left open. Not so, the faun or satyr, for such as which empirical (historical) supporting evidence is further adduced. He is seen as a real, mortal, bodily, rational creature, cognizant of "your Lord and ours, who, we have learned, came once to save the world, and 'whose sound has gone forth into all the earth' " - and grieved that some people "deluded by various forms of error worship" his sort.
Insofar as "God forbids spiritual pollution, dishonesty, evasion of responibility and denial of reality", it is our business to attend honestly and responsibly to empirical (historical) realities, in their rich complexity. That includes not substituting (seemingly) plausible accounts for the 'phenomena' which must be accounted for.
With respect to the uses and misuses of "fantasy" and 'escape', may I recommend (re)reading Tolkien's "On Fairy Tales" and "Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics"?


