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David Bentley Hart

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A Modest Proposal

To me, the Supreme Court’s decision in the case of the Westboro Baptist Church barbarians was merely an illustration of a number of obvious facts about modern culture, and further evidence that between a regime of abstract liberties and a culture of real freedoms there is not only a distinction, but often an inevitable antagonism. Before all else, the decision stands out as yet another poignant reminder of what a degrading exercise in reductio ad absurdum constitutional law frequently is these days.

No competent historian of American jurisprudence could believe for an instant that the authors of the Constitution of the United States ever envisaged an age in which enumerated liberties would be mistaken as writs of absolute license. The guarantee of free speech was certainly never intended as a shelter for any abuse whatsoever of the liberty it granted; it certainly was not meant to protect behaviors other than the unhindered expression of political or philosophical opinion; and it certainly was not meant to prevent the application of decent public prudence in determining what is or is not an intrinsically offensive manner of expressing that opinion.

But I do not want to fling myself into the debate between constitutional originalists and constitutional evolutionists. I find many aspects of the Constitution impressive, and am grateful for much of it, but still it is not something sacred to me, so I have no good grounds for demanding that one kind of hermeneutical approach to it be preferred above another.

I think, however, that anyone who cares to consider the matter understands the distinction between the proper use and the abuse of a liberty, and that only a fanatic or a psychotic idealist who believes that only abstractions are real could imagine that prudential judgments cannot be made about the merits of one form of expression or another without precipitating our legal system down the slippery slope towards fascism. I mean, one can believe that the Constitution truly guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms while still believing that a person who likes to spend his days on his porch with a hunting rifle menacingly aimed at his neighbor’s children can be restrained from doing so without his constitutional liberty being thereby abridged. But I may be wrong.

What I am quite certain of, however, is that Hegel was essentially right when he pointed out that freedom is a concrete and practical condition. That is, we are free not merely when our wills are subject to no restraint, but when we inhabit a civil society that places quite inviolable boundaries around the areas in which the will operates.

One is free to become something more than a feral hunter and gatherer, at war with one’s neighbors, because one belongs to a civil order that prohibits assaults on one’s person, encroachments on one’s property, and so forth. And because there are laws and authorities and agencies of enforcement, one can seek an education or pursue a vocation or undertake a great venture with a reasonable confidence that what one accomplishes will not suddenly and arbitrarily be destroyed by others. Real freedom is possible only where there are real and useful constraints in place.

More to the point, though, freedom is also a communal condition. The measure of how free we truly are is how free we are to live together in communities of shared moral expectation and responsibility, as long as these are just and lawful communities, without fearing the intrusions of those who have no regard for us.

For instance, if some pharmacological syndicate chose to place billboards advertising medication for erectile dysfunction or encouraging the use of condoms and safe sex in general, with fairly explicit text and images, next to a Pennsylvania valley full of Amish farmers and their families, it would be an act of aggression against the freedom of the people who live there. And if some court decided that the billboards were protected speech under the Constitution, and ruled that only those who put them up in the first place had the right to remove them, that would be an act of positive injustice.

Not that I think this very likely to happen just now; but I do think it obvious that when personal liberties become absolute, they also become simply another form of tyranny. Law that limits concrete freedom by refusing to allow the local exercise of prudence in determining the obvious difference between the use and the abuse of a liberty is unjust and an enemy of the only kind of freedom that is anything more than an empty concept.

Of course, this is all part the story of modernity, after all: the extension of a great many abstract rights, most of them good in principle, to as many persons as possible; but also the alienation of all concrete freedom to the state. Liberty before culture, license before prudence—it is all part of the inexorable logic by which the modern nation state progressively reduces all law and all social justice to a relation between the anonymous individual and the anonymous state. And, moreover, I am probably terribly naïve regarding our culture’s prudential competency to begin with.

After all, it may be true that a civilized people cares a little more about communal freedom than it does about absolute individual liberty, or at least wants a just equilibrium to obtain between them. But we are not really a civilized people (Exhibit A: Lady Gaga; Exhibit B—well, we don’t really need an Exhibit B here, so just fill in the list as you see fit). In any event, that ship left harbor long ago, then foundered somewhere off the Azores and was never heard from again. Hence we simply have to make the most of the situation we have.

So I thought I might modestly propose a means of redressing the imbalance between liberty and freedom that now exists, if only as a conceptual experiment. Perhaps the answer to our current conflict between civilized values and the nihilism of pure “negative liberty” (to use Isaiah Berlin’s phrase) is a revival of dueling. This may seem like an extreme solution, I grant, but only because we have allowed so many of the charming customs of the Old World to lapse into desuetude that we have lost our sense of solemnity and etiquette. Dueling is really a very polite and efficient way of dealing with an intolerable impasse, and one that has almost everything to recommend it.

After all, in the days when Western Europe existed in a state near barbarism, when the Pax Romana was no more and the High Middles Ages had not yet flowered and civilization was only a heap of fragments jealously guarded against the darkness, the chief responsibility for civil order devolved from the offices of public prudence to the arcane traditions of private honor. Now, manifestly, barbarism is come again.

Yes, I know, feudalism is not an ideal social or legal arrangement, but one cannot simply build a civilization in a day; one has to rely on imperfect instruments sometimes when the alternative is worse. And, yes, I know what misery private wars visited on European culture in the Middle Ages, and why the Pax Dei and the Treuga Dei had to be imposed. And I know of the Western Church’s long campaign to suppress duellum, and to allow bellum only under the twin conditions of ius ad and ius in.

And I know what an annoyance dueling became to various princes and republics at various times, and how a fashion for dueling among young officers in various militaries of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries often turned many a barracks into an especially ceremonious sort of abattoir. And so on and so on, ad taedium. But we need not resuscitate the entire cultural history of dueling, just the general principle and the legal dispensation from prosecution.

After all, if we are going to grant that the fiends in the Westboro Baptist congregation have the right to make their noisome protests at a time and in a place where no sane society would allow them to do so, then we should be willing to allow for some simple mechanism to counterbalance the damage they do.

I imagine that if some champion of one of the families molested by that pestilent rabble—let’s imagine him as a Special Forces officer famed for his uncanny marksmanship—were allowed to challenge the Rev. Fred Phelps to acquit himself manfully on the field of honor, and allowed to issue the challenge with the full indulgence of the courts and the weight of social judgment on his side, the good reverend and his parishioners would in all likelihood quietly ooze back into the sewer from which they originally pullulated. If not—well, for the gentler souls among us, I suppose we could limit duels ideally to first blood, and allow for fatality only in the event of mishap.

Really, I can see no good argument against the proposition. “A duel is often just a legal murder,” you might object. But, if there is one thing legal history definitely tells us, it is that what we define as murder is largely a matter of legal convention. “Intentional and avoidable violence is a sin,” you might then say. Yes, but so what? The courts are not in the business of telling us how to care for our souls. Leave such concerns to the pulpit or the confessional.

“The state cannot allow private justice,” you insist on adding, “lest anarchy overwhelm us.” Nonsense. If that’s the best you can come up with, you may as well go home now. And you really shouldn’t resort to that pompous “lest” in making your case. Dueling can be governed, like any other artificial convention, by clear regulations and customs. In the end, it is an honorable and honest private transaction between two consenting adults; so what stake does the state have in its prohibition?

Ah, well. I imagine your final riposte (and you are a persistent sort, aren’t you?) will be to tell me that I am just being willfully absurd. There, I admit, you have me. I find the fantasy mildly enchanting, of course, but only as a kind of daydream. Even so, however—and this is the only point I really mean to make—is there anything about my proposal that is conspicuously any more absurd than the decision just handed down by eight of the justices of the Supreme Court?

David Bentley Hart is a contributing editor of First Things. His most recent book is Atheist Delusions: The Christian Revolution and Its Fashionable Enemies (Yale University Press). His previous “On the Square” articles can be found here.

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Comments:

3.11.2011 | 12:29am
Bret Lythgoe says:
Who says Johnathon Swift is dead? Here we have a propsal that, could only come from Mr. Swift, or his cognitive equivalent. Magnificent!
3.11.2011 | 4:41am
ferd says:
Yes, Mr. Hart is right. Fear of physical harm is a great civilizer. Now all he has to do is gather a mob and beat the idea into the Supreme Court.
3.11.2011 | 5:19am
The scary thing about David Hart's Swiftian proposal is that there is almost no objection our nihilist culture could lodge against it. In fact, dueling would probably make an interesting reality tv show.
3.11.2011 | 7:01am
Dr. Hart, your judgment is emphatically correct. The Supreme Court's decision underscores the relentless course of relativism in modern culture. It supports the erosion of hard won civilizational values necessary to sustain a morally coherent and habitable human culture. A culture unable to make judgments on what is morally repugnant is heading for the anarchy of the absurd.
3.11.2011 | 7:18am
What the Supreme Court's decision says (emphatically) is that the law does not recognize any such entity as 'community'. Or, to quote Margaret Thatcher (a rather nasty brute whom American conservatives insist on adoring, because they are clueless about what she actually believed and did in the UK), 'There is no such thing as society.'

Oh, and thank-you, Mr Ferd for being the first commentator not quite to get the joke.
3.11.2011 | 7:26am
Eric says:
It's telling that in suggesting that in suggesting that dueling could be subject to clear regulations and customs, that Mr. Hart declines to say what those regulations and customs might be. What organ of the society he admits is uncivilized will be charged with drafting these regulations? How will he ensure that his proposal serves justice rather than merely skill with a firearm?

Driving the caterwauling of folks like Fred Phelps back into the sewers, while containing a degree of immediate gratification, only allows his poison to fester and become malignant in small underground enclaves, immune from any substantive challenge. I prefer Phelps and all of his poison to be exposed directly to the harsh light of day where its injustice is made plain.
3.11.2011 | 7:39am
AL says:
@ Eric,

Those would be really interesting and challenging questions, Eric old fellow, if this column were making a serious proposal. But it is not. Read the last paragraph, please. It is an entirely ironic commentary on the silliness of how modern jurisprudence views the relationship between law and culture. OK? Got that? It is not an argument for dueling, just as earlier columns by the same author did not argue for actual belief in fairies or that New Year's Day is actually a pagan festival.

Goodness, the internet really does make it clear that you can never thrust your tongue far enough into your cheek for some readers.

Lighten up.
3.11.2011 | 8:05am
Tricia says:
We need a group of wealthy philanthropists to litigate the WBC into financial oblivion . . . that should appeal to certain cultural sensibilities.
3.11.2011 | 8:08am
MacGabhann says:
@Andrew Lyttle:
"Or, to quote Margaret Thatcher (a rather nasty brute whom American conservatives insist on adoring, because they are clueless about what she actually believed and did in the UK), 'There is no such thing as society.'"

A nasty brute because she eviscerated Arthur Scargill, the Barnsley Commubaptist, and companion in hatefulness to Fred Phelps? And she was right about society: an anonymous abstraction of the card-carrying polytechnic totalitarianate which she also overcame politically by championing free individuals rooted in real communities.
3.11.2011 | 8:16am
Pat says:
"No competent historian of American jurisprudence could believe for an instant that the authors of the Constitution of the United States ever envisaged an age in which enumerated liberties would be mistaken as writs of absolute license."

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong. Alexander Hamilton envisioned it, and therefore opposed the Bill of Rights (see, for instance, Fed. 84).

Looks like Hamilton was right once again.
3.11.2011 | 8:59am
jason taylor says:
"I prefer Phelps and all of his poison to be exposed directly to the harsh light of day where its injustice is made plain. "

The whole point of Phelps and all of his poison is to gain attention. Exposing him to the harsh light of day would give him what he wants.

For myself I rather would like those who thoughtlessly toss around insults to receive challenges. The problem is that dueling societies tended to degrade dueling into a form of bullying by which the skilled swordsman can say or do anything he wanted and the unskilled couldn't.

There are indeed certain attractions in the revival of dueling, notably in nostalgia. And in the possibility of making public life more courteous. There are however certain disadvantages.
3.11.2011 | 9:08am
IB Bill says:
I enjoyed this article, and yes, it is a fantasy. There was a time where I thought dueling was an answer, too -- a way of making people in a free society responsible for their words.

However, however, however ... there is a problem. And a particular relevant one on a Catholic blog.

IIRC, the Church condemns dueling in no uncertain terms, and the penalty is excommunication. That includes all who cooperate, not just the participants, but seconds, those who encourage a specific duel, and the spectators who witness it.

So that's that. But dueling is certainly understandable. Today people offend others' honor with impunity. They expect no consequences.
3.11.2011 | 9:10am
Paige says:
Pat,

That is not quite the substance of Hamilton's objection. He thought the Bill of Rights superfluous to the actual rights provided for in the Constitution, and he thought the rights enumerated were uninterpretably vague, but he did not necessarily foresee the kind of bizarre voluntarism underwritten by today's social reasoning. He feared the chaos of unresolvable differences of interpretation, not a descent into relativist nihilism.
3.11.2011 | 9:33am
Mike Linton says:
David: You actually wrote this? "the good reverend and his parishioners would in all likelihood quietly ooze back into the sewer from which they originally pullulated. If not—well, for the gentler souls among us, I suppose we could limit duels ideally to first blood, and allow for fatality only in the event of mishap."

"ooze back into the sewer"? One they "originally pulluted [sic]"? Yeah, you did write that. I can recognize the various devices of rhetoric but even so that's pretty nasty. Maybe it's even calling them a name, a very, very nasty name (they are so filthy they pollute a sewer). Maybe that's a kind of assault. And if the folks who you're calling that nasty name read your post on their home computers you're saying that inside their homes, where they live with their families. Maybe that's a pretty intimate assault, kinda like a home invasion. And this is all on the web, so it can be read all over the world, so maybe you assaulted them internationally as well. Maybe you shouldn't be able to do that. Maybe you should be hauled into court and forced to pay a fine for saying that. Maybe you should be locked up. Maybe the state should make sure you never say anything nasty like that again.

Maybe? No, most certainly not. It's called freedom on speech. You have a right to express your opinion, I have mine, the folks with the Westboro Baptist Church have theirs. In this country, you have the right to call people sewer beings, even if it hurts the feelings of other humans (or you should have that right). I don't think it's particularly Christian (being a gentle soul, as you can tell), but in America is a political freedom. You're in a state, Rhode Island, that was founded on that kind of political right, the free expression of an opinion even if that opinion threatened what was seen as civil peace (those nasty Baptists). Sometimes the lawyers hired to sit on the Supreme Court are pretty wrong. Sometimes they get it right. They got right this time. Big time. At least I think so. That's my opinion. And it's a free country.
3.11.2011 | 9:34am
Paige says:
Dear IB Bill,

That's all important, in its way, but not very relevant here, and not only because this column is essentially a wry joke. First, this is NOT a Catholic site and this is NOT a blog. Dr Hart is also NOT a Catholic and therefore would not be swayed by such considerations. Finally, I think it's clear that Dr Hart does NOT think dueling is really an answer to anything.
3.11.2011 | 9:39am
Pat says:
Paige,

I am aware that Federalist 84, ALSO says what you say it does. But Hamilton has more than one objection (as do many of the Federalists) to a bill of rights, and he discusses the problem stated by Mills, in many places, not only Federalist 84.

See for instance

Federalist 1, where he warns against "an over-scrupulous jealousy of danger to the rights of the people"

or

Federalist 67, where he warns against the tendency of people to appeal to to liberty when abusing liberty.

I could go on . . .
3.11.2011 | 9:40am
Joe Carter says:
@Mike Linton ***(they are so filthy they pollute a sewer)***

Hart's use of "pullulated" wasn't a typo. It means "to breed or produce freely."
3.11.2011 | 10:02am
Jon Rowe says:
Not sure if I get the "nihilistic relativism" complaint. Fred Phelps is the antithesis of a relativist.

I don't like what Phelps says, at all. But the content of his speech is arguably as bad as what's in Jonathan Edwards' sermons. The FFs may not have been "Christians" like Edwards; but they weren't trying to take away his free speech rights.
3.11.2011 | 10:06am
Mike Linton,

4 things:

1. Where in this column did Dr Hart suggest the Westboro savages shouldn't enjoy freedom of speech? Where did he say they couldn't use any language they liked? The issue was where, when, and how, and whether there can be community standards for 'public' displays that impinge on private rites of mourning, and whether behaving that way on that occasion did not constitute a litigable assault and attempt to harm. Did you notice the 2nd amendment analogy? Your remarks are totally irrelevant to this piece, as they are to the case in question.

2. I know Dr Hart and happen to know he does not live in Rhode Island. Even if he did, Rhode Island was certainly not founded on the right viciously to abuse people trying to bury their son in peace. Believe me, the original founders of the plantation would have arrested anyone who tried to do that.

3. By the way, do you think that Jesus was being unchristian when he publicly called scribes and pharisees whited sepulchres, full of dead men's bones and all corruption? Or when he publicly called certain Pharisees children of the devil? And so on?

4. Buy a dictionary. I don't expect everyone to have Dr Hart's vocabulary, but you might have looked up the difference between 'pullulate' and 'pollute' before going off the handle. It makes you look a little on the rough and uneducated side.
3.11.2011 | 10:19am
PRH says:
Mr. Linton,

Read Justice Alito's dissent and you will see that you are missing both the point of the court case and the point of this (very amusing) column.

And look up the word "pullulate" in your Webster's for goodness' sake.
3.11.2011 | 10:25am
Joe Carter says:
@PRH ***And look up the word "pullulate" in your Webster's for goodness' sake.***

I think we should cut Mr. Linton some slack on this point. In the context it would see reasonable to assume that the word might be "pollute." And it's not inconceivable that I could have let a typo slip through in the editing process.

Also, how many of us would have looked up the word had he not drawn attention to it? (Not me.)
3.11.2011 | 10:29am
Nathan Duffy says:
@Jon Rowe, no one is accusing Phelps of being a relativist. The reference to nihilistic relativism is a reference to the cultural, ideological trend in American society that is responsible for the Supreme Court's decision.
3.11.2011 | 10:35am
AL says:
@ Joe Carter,

Grammatically and syntactically, it could not have been 'polluted', so Mr Linton ought to have assumed it was a word he did not know and made a short pilgrimage to his dictionary. He also should have checked to make sure the issue here was simply one of free speech, rather than of the power of a community to have standards regarding proper and improper public display. I liked Dr Hart's billboard analogy. At one time, everyone recognized this, and it did not limit free opinion at all.

So, no, no slack for Mr Linton. Reading is not just a right, it is a responsibility (or some such phrase).
3.11.2011 | 10:40am
Paige says:
Mr. Linton and Mr. Rowe,
Do you then reject the principle that the right to free speech does not equate to the right to shout "fire" in a crowded theater. If you do not, then you already accept that free speech is not a license to any sort of public behavior that involves using words, and that there can be rules regarding appropriate venues and manners for the exercise of the right. You know, like: you have a right to bear arms, not a right to wave a gun around you in public. You have a right to free speech, not a right to stand on a corner shouting the n-word at people. This is simple.
As for the nihilistic relativism remark, it referred not to Phelps but to the court.
3.11.2011 | 10:41am
Jon Rowe says:
So we seem to have agreement here that the, what we all agree is vile, content of the Phelps family is protected (that their websites shouldn't be taken down, shouldn't be prosecuted for the contents thereof, that if they wanted to send out in print publications to those interested in their message, they could, etc. etc.) but the "time, place and manner" of the speech should be regulated?

SCOTUS has long held that the sidewalks -- peacefully demonstrating there -- are free speech zones, the content of whose messages may not be regulated. That's the issue and the Phelps ruling just upheld this long recognized doctrine.

If the Phelps family tried to demonstrate AT the church, the church would be well within their property rights to exclude them.

Perhaps we need to privatize the sidewalks and deny Phelps et al. a license to enter.

That's how Murray Rothbard would handle it.
3.11.2011 | 10:50am
Jon Rowe says:
I still don't see how committing to free speech is "relativist." It seems to me, "relativism" would assert what Bid Liden, the Pope, Phelps, or John Shelby Spong say is all morally the same with no way to distinguish whose message is "true" or "better," whose is "false" or "worse."

The notion of hating what one may have to say but defending to the death the right to say it is not relativist. At least, I don't see it that way.

Early notions of free speech were articulated, chiefly, so the state WOULDN'T judge the content of of religious speech. That Phelps' speech is both RELIGIOUS and POLITICAL puts in it a zone of near absolute protection. It's these kinds of speech (as opposed to obscenity, defamation, fraud, child pornography) that gets the highest level of protection, precisely because, the Founding Fathers DID have RELIGIOUS and POLITICAL speech in mind when they wrote the First Amendment.
3.11.2011 | 12:54pm
Robert Moody says:
The Supremes did place a lot of stock in the placement of Phelps away from the church. The mistake of the city was in not putting them across the street. This could have met the "fire in a crowded theater" requirement and, when the soldier's father quite properly broke the Phelpsian nose, introduced a form of duel.
3.11.2011 | 1:08pm
john3 says:
very good article!

thanks, Dr. Hart!
3.11.2011 | 1:20pm
TBH says:
Another modest proposal, and in the spirit of free speech: a short questionnaire prior to submission of any comment (suggestions ranging from, "Have you read the enire article?" to "If so, how long has it been since your first reading?"); an oath that if any comment is submitted entirely off topic (besides this one of course) will bar the individual (besides this one of course) from posting a comment for the next week (at least); while we digress, any other proposals?
3.11.2011 | 4:58pm
Why, yes, we sensible rational people are above the Constitution, at least above those parts that the those ignorant Supreme Court justices don't quite get. I mean we know how to interpret it correctly. Besides, the thing isn't "sacred."
3.11.2011 | 6:01pm
IB Bill says:
Paige: I was aware it was a joke, thanks.
3.11.2011 | 11:24pm
Patrick says:
I for one am offended by above suggestion that fairies are not real. Just because you, sir, have not seen them does not mean that they do not exist. They are simply shy, delicate creatures, easily disturbed and sent into hiding by men in lab coats wielding microscopes.

In any case, Dr. Hart here, if we interpret this piece as irony, seems to be advocating a sort of state-mandated communal organicism which would seem to be a contradiction. Perhaps it's his Anglican upbringing speaking. What is his point? That there should be "community" structures in place to prevent this sort of thing? Well, sure, that would be nice. But clearly there are no such structures.

Is there anything more to this piece beside nostalgia for state-controlled "Christendom"? What, again, is the point? Yes, Westboro is offensive. Yes, it would be nice if there were some way to make them go away aside from lawsuits. However I don't see what LEGAL basis there is for censoring them without presupposing an Ideal Society that the state is supposed to enforce.

Dr. Hart says that true liberty requires restriction. Each individual must respect the liberties of others and restrict himself if necessary to grant them. That is the basis of community. As a very diverse nation, the United States often has problems with that. Different actions have different cultural significance to different groups, so it is difficult to arrive at a universal code of etiquette. Is that where, for Dr. Hart, absolute monarchy comes in to save the day?
3.12.2011 | 8:35am
In a response to a previous article by Hadley Arkes I had suggested several responses to the Supreme courts decision, not only in the Westboro case but in many others as well. While none of these entailed dueling in the strict sense of the word several could be construed as a kind of political or cultural dueling. One suggestion involved ignoring their rulings at the state and local levels and acting as they saw fit. In time this would cause a response from the courts and we could ignore their responses.At some point a showdown would ensue, maybe troops would be called in and the approximation of a a mano y mano face down would occur. Kind of like a duel. Who would blink, who would shoot. Ah the drama. Cultural defenders facing the troops of the realm defending the destruction of local culture. Ah, but that's so much craziness. Destruction of culture, even the notion is silly. Oh by the way your request for a parade permit for your Faith and family parade has been denied, a little to much religion on a public thoroughfare, that and its implicit homophobia sealed the deal. Not yet but soon.
3.12.2011 | 10:10am
Henry James says:
In Defense of Bill, et alia; and against David Hart:

Hart likes to pull a particular kind of trick, in nearly all his articles: he likes to make outrageous, often violent statements that will appeal to the conservative base ... but then insert an more modest escape clause; a mild qualification. A backing away from extremism. But it is inevitably, a qualification that many readers will not notice. Or in every case, will be simply overwhelmed by the sheer pleasure most conservatives will get, in the vastly more noticeable, violent tirade.

But it is a cheap trick, after all. So that it is time to finally suggest that after all, the emphasis in Hart, at least, really IS on the violent exhibition, of love of self. Of revenge over others (especially liberals). Finally, the formal caveats, are all but effaced, drowned out - by the uninhibited exhibition of our lowest passions; of vanity and superciliousness and contempt and violence.

Then finally it is therefore, absolutely correct to speak as if Hart's predominent -and therefore "real" message - after all, is contemptible love of violence.

Which is why and how he gets published so often in a militaristic conservative journal, of course.

Let no one be fooled, by Hart's simple rhetorical tricks.
3.12.2011 | 10:22am
Jon Rowe says:
Re dueling, it may well result in killing the WBC; but do you think we need that to achieve that end? The WBC have been subject to threats of an actual violence. One Liberty University student is (I believe) currently in jail for conspiring to blow them up as they protested Jerry Falwell's funeral.

The WBC may be a lot of things. But they are not phonies. Like the Islamo-suicide bombers, they really do believe in their religious message. They have said, if God wants them dead, there is not a thing THEY can do to stop it. And if God wants them alive, there is not a thing WE can do to stop it.

And I hate to say this and repeat what I've noted on these threads to the consternation of some, but such fatalism is part and parcel of 5-point Calvinistic fundamentalism.
3.12.2011 | 10:50am
Tony Esolen says:
Thank you, David, for this brilliant piece. I'm delighted to find myself in company with you and Hadley Arkes.

Again, I'd recommend that everyone read Justice Alito's summation of the many and varied methods available to these moral monsters for the expression of their views. They did not have to ruin the poor young man's funeral. And perhaps they would not have dared to do so, had we not ceded to the state all of our responsibilities, as citizens, for keeping the peace and for providing for the common good. Let's take a few guesses as to why this would not have happened in 1940. Not because there were no people who gave offense, but because there were also people who would have taken offense, and taken it not to the courts but to the mouths of the people giving it. Cowards like the Phelps crowd -- and like others, too, that I can think of -- like to trumpet their right to engage in offensive behavior, but they are not willing to face the offended man to man. The Constitution is NOT a document for the evisceration of community life, or for our responsibilities to keep the peace, even if keeping the peace at times requires a sock to the jaw -- as indeed it does, at times, as every schoolboy used to know.

I see now that Phelps et alia are going to descend upon Pennsylvania to bring additional misery to the poor family that lost seven children in a recent fire. The governor has called for a cordon of thousands to shield the mourners from the protestors. I'd prefer something more on the order of tarring and feathering. If the whole town came out with the requisite materials, why, what would the state do, throw them all in prison? Hardly. Yes, the Phelps folks may try to ruin the peaceable assembly of people attempting to do that most human of things, mourning the dead. Let them try -- and let them face the anger of the people they offend. I've heard for years the idiotic slogan, "Violence is never a solution." Excuse me, very often it is a quick and effective solution, if indeed a sock to the jaw to protect a grieving family is justly characterized as violence rather than as an act of charity. My gosh, it may even be an occasion for second thoughts and conversion of heart. I am absolutely persuaded that every man and every boy knows this to be the case.

So sure, Phelpses, speak up, but if you do it in our town and on the day of the funeral, maybe you should order some sets of dentures in advance.
3.12.2011 | 11:53am
Durtal says:
Pat, et al, I find it fascinating that you quote Alexander Hamilton with regard to and essay regarding the utility of dueling. I couldnt' agree with it more.

Aaron Burr
3.12.2011 | 12:58pm
Henry James says:
Has anyone here actually read the Supreme Court decision? I've looked at it - and the first page notes that the demonstration was 1,000 feet from the church and/or funeral.

Note that our local admirers of David and Harley in fact, are rather seriously recommending a "sock to the jaw." No doubt, when Jesus recommended "turning the other cheek, they would have simply killed him.

Are conservatives Christians? Today I am convinced they are not. Rather our "hawks" are more exactly, the foretold "wolves in sheep's clothing." Persons posing as meek religious followers of Christ ... in order to turn us over to a violent, hierarchical regime. Where blind,animal, dumb physical force rules.
3.12.2011 | 1:07pm
Mr. James, I presume that the militaristic journal of which you speak is "First Things". What piffle. I would guess that you come to this site carrying a full pack of ideological baggage. I would further guess that you know what Mr. Harts point is and that you disagree with it, so you fix on his devices. Reasonable people can and do disagree on the recent SCOTUS ruling. I myself was conflicted and as much as it disgusted me I at first agreed with the decision. After many discussions and some soul searching I changed my mind. In a previous commentary on this article, while using different terms, I used what in your reasoning could only be described as a call to violence. While recognizing your concern my purpose was to emphasize the continuing asault on common culture by the trump card of free speech. I believe that Mr. hart was essentially doing the same thing and unless your position is that SCOTUS is the final arbiter of all things cultural then resistance to its rulings is not only reasonable but historically the norm. The question is was Mr. harts a call to resistance or violence. He did not speak of revolution but of dueling. Do you think he was in favor of bringing back dueling. I think not. His was a metaphor for resistance. It may comfort you to believe the opposite but that does not address the larger question of who and how will our culture be defined. The first amendment is a noble and essential protector of all of our rights but as it was said in another context, the constitution was not a suicide pact. The question of what our common culture should be is of existential importance to say nothing of its importance to how we will live together and thrive. Your take on Mr. Hart is ill considered and demonstrates a facial understanding of what is at stake.
3.12.2011 | 1:41pm
Steve Martin says:
People ought not make judgements about anyone's eternal destinations.

Jesus warned us about doing that because we are unable to discern the hearts of me. Only Christ Jesus is capable of that.

Thanks.
3.12.2011 | 2:09pm
Jon Rowe says:
Fred Phelps et al., though they are for real, feed on your anger.

If you step back for a minute and stop resenting them, you'll see the proper response to them is laughter. Laugh at their clownishness. Laugh in their faces. Life is a carnival as Robbie Robertson once put it.
3.12.2011 | 3:59pm
Johnny R. says:
Evan MacIan and Mr. Turnbull revisited! Love it. (GKC always reminded me of DBH; and the students of logic in the room will note that I have that backwards)
3.12.2011 | 5:39pm
Billy Bean says:
Patrick: No. That is where (to be shamelessly Chestertonian) "common sense" comes in to save the day. (And I also think that you yourself know that very well!)
3.12.2011 | 6:26pm
Tony Esolen says:
"A violent, hierarchical regime"? Mr. James, really? What Mr. Hart is calling for is the energetic exercise of local custom, local authority, local public life, for the common good, which is also in large part local and not global. As for the violence: I am surely called upon to turn the other cheek. I am NOT called upon to turn my neighbor's cheek. I am called upon rather to defend the weak and the vulnerable. That too is an act of charity, and there isn't a single Christian philosopher in two thousand years who would deny it. And who is more vulnerable than a grieving parent? You want a hierarchical regime? It's what we have now, when we all have to go ducking and scraping to the nine archons of our culture. They were never supposed to be nine cultural archons, but that is what they are.

A thousand feet is not far away, is it? And on the day of the funeral, specifically chosen to cause the most pain. It is a breach of the peace, and the Supreme Court decision does in fact recognize nothing between the anonymous individual and the anonymous state, as Dr. Hart has said, so the community is robbed of its right to have a common life, and to preserve the peace and pursue the common good by their best lights. What that means -- nothing less than the destruction of genuine political life, life lived among one's fellows in the polis.

Dr. Hart's half jovial feint towards monarchy is, of course, immediately taken by Americans who are not thinking too deeply about history as a longing for absolutism. What life was actually like under the European monarchs -- even under the French monarch before the seventeenth century -- is not addressed. It would be interesting to ask what the political life of a carpenter in York around 1300 was, by comparison with what it is like now.
3.14.2011 | 10:33am
I respond to Mr. Hart's seeming claim that there is no principled way to support Snyder v. Phelps and oppose dueling on my blog here: http://source4politics.blogspot.com/2011/03/dueling-westboro.html

If Mr. Hart (or others) wish to dispute either my assertions or my interpretation of this piece, I can be reached at drewmm@gmail.com
3.15.2011 | 11:11am
I think we certainly need to allow communities to govern themselves according to their own prudential lights, but they can only do so if they are permitted to be real communities. The nation-state is not a community, yet it not only embodies a coercive ethic of nihilistic, anti-logos anti-community, but it prevents real communities from being able to be real communities. This is pretty much the modus operandi of the Supreme Court right now. This is obvious in the Snyder case.

The answer is not to try to inform the nation-state with robust moral values, for this will only make it more monstrous and powerful--a non-community is stupid, morally speaking, and being a sub-political agent, should have no more moral import than an alliance--but for communities to simply behave like communities and keep behaving like them even when they are told not to. If the Supreme Court attacks a community at its heart, like it has in the Snyder v. Phelps, then the community needs to see that it has a right not to be attacked, a right to assert its lights. I am not advocating violence here, but perhaps a bit more resistance than we have yet seen. Civil disobedience anyone?
4.2.2011 | 9:47am
Felten Forex says:
That is not quite the substance of Hamilton's objection. He thought the Bill of Rights superfluous to the actual rights provided for in the Constitution, and he thought the rights enumerated were uninterpretably vague, but he did not necessarily foresee the kind of bizarre voluntarism underwritten by today's social reasoning. He feared the chaos of unresolvable differences of interpretation, not a descent into relativist nihilism. 2. I know Dr Hart and happen to know he does not live in Rhode Island. Even if he did, Rhode Island was certainly not founded on the right viciously to abuse people trying to bury their son in peace. Believe me, the original founders of the plantation would have arrested anyone who tried to do that.
5.16.2011 | 10:24pm
That is not quite the substance of Hamilton's objection. He thought the Bill of Rights superfluous to the actual rights provided for in the Constitution, and he thought the rights enumerated were uninterpretably vague, but he did not necessarily foresee the kind of bizarre voluntarism underwritten by today's social reasoning. He feared the chaos of unresolvable differences of interpretation, not a descent into relativist nihilism. 2. I know Dr Hart and happen to know he does not live in Rhode Island. Even if he did, Rhode Island was certainly not founded on the right viciously to abuse people trying to bury their son in peace. Believe me, the original founders of the plantation would have arrested anyone who tried to do that. In any case, Dr. Hart here, if we interpret this piece as irony, seems to be advocating a sort of state-mandated communal organicism which would seem to be a contradiction. Perhaps it's his Anglican upbringing speaking. What is his point? That there should be "community" structures in place to prevent this sort of thing? Well, sure, that would be nice. But clearly there are no such structures.
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